garand shoots high

[themeowman]

One of my garands shoots about 5" high. The rear sight is bottomed out & it shoots
a great group about 2 1/2 in at 100 yards. Is there a higher front sight available?
Any other ideas?
Thanks
Tom

[Orlando]

Welcome to the forum

Is it in a new commercial stock?
Remove rear handguard and see if the barrel is hitting the stock in the barrel channel. Common problem with new stocks
Take a look at the first picture in this post http://forum.shuffsparkerizing.com/showthread.php?32-quot-How-to-quot-Stock-Fitting-Part-II

[themeowman]

Hi Orlando
The stock is a USGI with correct markings & used. The rear handguard is new that I prchased as it matched well.
What should I look for on the handguard?
Tom

[Orlando]

Check the barrel channel, its possible on a USGI stock
Does the rifle shoot high all the time or start to string shoots as it gets hot
You holding at 6 oclock on the target?

I have a rifle built out of a barreled receiver that shoots high, unfortuantly i believe it has a bent barrel

[themeowman]

I will check the barrel channel. I shoots high all the time, no stringing when it gets hot.
Thanks for the help.
Tom

[axemurderer]

Not that this will be any help at all, but my Garand shot way high at 100. When I got it back from Tim as a Mini-g, It shot perfectly. But that may be the radical approch to the problem.

Mike

[Orlando]

Whats the muzzle look like, any bad dings on the inside ?

[Dave Waits]

How is your triggerguard lockup? Do you feel a little pressure against closing or alot? Is the Lower-Band loose on the barrel?

[Orlando]

How is your triggerguard lockup? Do you feel a little pressure against closing or alot? Is the Lower-Band loose on the barrel?

Dave
Glad to see you on the forum.
Does a loose lock up or overly tight lock up cause a rifle to shoot high?
Thanks

[timshufflin]

Some times these things shoot high, right, left or low not because the barrel is bent, stock is loose/tight, or the handguards are jacked up but because the darn hole in the barrel (bore) is not cut straight. I see this quite a bit on USGI barrels and once in a while on new production barrels. Any of you own a barrel where one side of the muzzle looks twice as thick as the other side? Now remember this, the outside of the barrel is what is used to mount your front sight.

[timshufflin]

Not that this will be any help at all, but my Garand shot way high at 100. When I got it back from Tim as a Mini-g, It shot perfectly. But that may be the radical approch to the problem.

Mike

Barrel may now still shoot slightly high if the bore was not cut concentric to the outside of the barrel OR could be all the way fixed if the last 8" of the barrel had a bend.

[Dave Waits]

Orlando, Garands require downward pressure on the barrel to shoot correctly, most of that comes from the lockup of the triggerguard. That's why you feel pressure against closing the guard, it's pushing the barrel down with the Lower-Band as the fulcrum-point. Anyway, no pressure or very little pressure will cause the rifle to shoot high. Two things generally cause this; D-shaped Mainlugs on the triggerguard and Compressed wood at the floorplate. If the lugs look good, slip a business card between the floorplate of the triggergroup and the wood and close it. If you feel more pressure against closing, the wood's compressed. Shoot the rifle with the card in place, bet it will shoot lower.
HTH;
Dave
Guys, the D-shaping of the lugs is the reason you should use a little dab of grease on each lug, it helps to ease the lugs into lockup and slows the shaping process.

[Dave Waits]

tim brings up a very good point, non-concentric boring. the only barrels I haven't seen this at one time or another is with VARs. The Danes could teach alot about barrel-making. Those are, without a doubt, the straightest, most-concentric, evenly-rifled barrels I've seen as far as Military barrels are concerned. The Worst, probably a tie between Marlins' early barrels and SA.

[Orlando]

I'm with you on the downward draw, I thought you were suggesting to tight a lockup could cause problems
Thanks

[themeowman]

I don't see any evidence of rubbing in the barrel channel. I will relieve it a little just in case. The stock ferrule is
tight. The trigger guard needs pressure to close about 5/8" before closing so I think lockup is good? No nicks
in the crown & looks good.
Tom

[Orlando]

Tom
I would next try another front sight or measure the one you have against another. Might try swapping the Gas Cylinder if you have a spare

[Dave Waits]

Tom, how tight does the lower-band fit on the barrel? Barrel spuds are expensive so, it's kinda hard for an ordinary shooter to check barrel straightness. That makes it hard to locate the center of whatever bend is in it. I've got a spud but, it never leaves the safe unless I need it. Mine's .290caliber and 20" long. Last one I saw was going for $250.00. What you could try is a smaller spud, say five inches long. Chuck the barreled action in a padded vice and use a round level on the Front sight mount of the gas-Cylinder to level it. Then, put a short level on the spud and see if it reads the same. It won't be the best but it should give you an idea.

[timshufflin]

Tom, how tight does the lower-band fit on the barrel? Barrel spuds are expensive so, it's kinda hard for an ordinary shooter to check barrel straightness. That makes it hard to locate the center of whatever bend is in it. I've got a spud but, it never leaves the safe unless I need it. Mine's .290caliber and 20" long. Last one I saw was going for $250.00. What you could try is a smaller spud, say five inches long. Chuck the barreled action in a padded vice and use a round level on the Front sight mount of the gas-Cylinder to level it. Then, put a short level on the spud and see if it reads the same. It won't be the best but it should give you an idea.


Dave, I've had some luck shooting light through a bore to see if there are any shadows/dark "corners" in the barrel. You can't roll one, it will tell you nothing because there's just a lot that are not concentrically bored.

[timshufflin]

Oh, and I want to get get me one of those high falutin barrel spuds. My question is, how does one keep the spud straight? If it's anything like a pull through reamer rod, straight isn't in the cards.

[themeowman]

Thanks guys
I don't think I'm ready for the spud yet. I have thiught about the taller front
sight. Orlando, what would changing the gas cyl do ? I have heard of them
being out of spec, but I thought that would cause functioning problems ?
There is SO much to learn. You guys are a great help.
Tom

[timshufflin]

Okay, there's another thing that no one has mentioned and I'm currently trying to figure out who this happened to. About two years ago someone from the old BT sent a rifle back to the CMP because it shot left or right or up or down or something. Turns out, either the threads in the receiver were not cut true or the receiver face was really really off. These things will make your rifle shoot high my friend. I have a post in the Garand forum trying to figure out who had that rifle.

[Dave Waits]

That can drive you nuts Tim. About three years ago guy brought one in that matter what he did, it shot to the right. Poor guy tried three different barrels. I looked at it and tried different stuff for three weeks, couldn't figure it out. I was ready to give up and picked up the receiver to put it back together and give it back when I noticed the shoulder face looked odd. Chucked it upright in a vise and leveled off the Op-Rod track and then laid my dial-protractor across the face. Read five-degrees uphill to the left! Straightened it out with a #2 Swissfile and checked it for eight different angles. Put it back together and it was dead-on. Couldn't do that again if I tried! Guy was tickled to death.

[timshufflin]

Mr. Waits, that's what I'm talking about right there. I am a little shocked that only 5 degrees on the face could screw up the POI but I don't have the experience with this problem to know any better. Seems like normal barrel draw would simply bend/fold the barrel shoulder to straight with the threads. Now, if the threads were off, I can really see that mattering. Like I said though, not doubting you one bit, just surprised that 5 degrees can make such a difference on such soft metal.

[Orlando]

Not to get to far off subject but have you ever run across barrels that the inner chamfer on the muzzle was off?

[timshufflin]

All the time Orlando, and I haven't noticed them shooting to bad. About every military barrel I see is off some, doesn't seem to be earth shattering for accuracy decent accuracy.

[Punch The Clown]

Vermont Gage makes 12" pin gages. Not expensive either.

[Punch The Clown]

Here's a thought for you. Maybe the M14 guys go for that no draw/loctite deal so the face of the receiver is minimized in the equation?

[timshufflin]

Could you forward me the link in email Stu, I'd go for one.

[timshufflin]

Here's a thought for you. Maybe the M14 guys go for that no draw/loctite deal so the face of the receiver is minimized in the equation?

Perhaps so sir.

[Dave Waits]

With the rear all the way to the left, it was still shooting about eight inches right. Took about 45 minutes with the file to get it squared( Don't have a lathe). That five-degrees translated to almost 1/8th inch high. For soft steel that receiver was a real Bitch-kitty to file down. I would take a couple strokes and check,take a couple strokes and check. Probably would have taken about three minutes with a lathe and a dial-indicator.

Only time I've ever ran into this, still trying to figure how it got by SAs QC. I mean, if I could catch it with a MkI eyeball, they should have caught it at the Arsenal. What I'm silently dreading is threads that aren't cut square. Haven't seen one yet but I've heard the horror-stories.

[timshufflin]

By soft steel, I mean the barrel. Those darn receivers are about 58 Rockwell.

[redheep]

Thanks guys
I don't think I'm ready for the spud yet. I have thiught about the taller front
sight. Orlando, what would changing the gas cyl do ? I have heard of them
being out of spec, but I thought that would cause functioning problems ?
There is SO much to learn. You guys are a great help.
Tom

Tom, I think he meant that if you had another gas cylinder with a front sight on it, it would be a lot easier to swap the whole assembly than to pull a front sight and replace it for troubleshooting purposes.

Josh

[themeowman]

Thanks guys!
Sorry it took so long for me to get back. After measuring several front sights I have
an IHC that is .008 higher. I have installed it & hope to try it out tomorrow.
I will let you all know how it turns out.
Tom

[howie]

Just so you know, I've really enjoyed reading this thread. I've learned a few things new (for me, anyway).

[themeowman]

Sunday I was able shoot the rifle with the taller sight. It helped a lot but is not perfect yet. I think I will take
one of my old sights & have the blade built up a bit with weld. Then I can file it down till I get a good POI with
2 or 3 clips up. What do you guys think?
Tom

[Orlando]

I say do it. I bought a "supposably tall" Garand sight but was no taller than the ones I had. You going to weld it up yourself?

[timshufflin]

I say if the front sight helped, just lower the rear sight.

[Orlando]

Its as low as she goes Timma

[timshufflin]

Its as low as she goes Timma


Really, it has been ground down at the bottom of the aperture?

[Orlando]

I dont know about the OP's apeture but mine has

[timshufflin]

Got ya Orlando.

[themeowman]

Tim, Orlando
My aperature has not been ground down. I think it would be better to build up the front sight blade. I am a lousy
welder. I will have a friend that is very good do it for me. Thanks all.
Tom

[themeowman]

Tim
I was thinking about your idea of grinding the aperature. Could you illustrate where & how much
to grind? Thanks
Tom

[timshufflin]

Tim
I was thinking about your idea of grinding the aperature. Could you illustrate where & how much
to grind? Thanks
Tom

I'm about to leave for the weekend so I can't get you photo's. Just take a bench grinder and take off just short of the first tooth of the bottom of the app. Try and keep an angle at the bottom close to the originals. Nothing to it.

[Orlando]

I have one ,I can post pics of it. Probably not until tomorrow though

[Orlando]

Here ya go, just keep, grinding off until aperture sets as low as it can go in the sight base
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/Picture229.jpg

[themeowman]

Thanks Orlando !:)
Tom

[Orlando]

Did you get your garand problem solved?
If not Roland Beaver has tall front sights. They are a thin NM type blade that he has made up, they look well done
$35.00 shipped, if you need his contact info PM me

[Punch The Clown]

Here ya go, just keep, grinding off until aperture sets as low as it can go in the sight base
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/misc/Picture229.jpg

And as an added bonus you can change apertures without dis-assembling the sight!

[themeowman]

Thanks guys. Orlando PM sent. I would prefer a taller front sight to grinding the aperature.
The slightly taller sight I tried made it better. A little more is all I need.
Tom