They're doing it in Germany.

[timshufflin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAp2VaJM4cc&feature=related

[seaninmich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=IZ_pw6iN-Ko

[timshufflin]

You know though, you'd think if you helped out a fella who lives thousands of miles away, in a land that has been a bit of a thorn to Americans, he'd at least give you some love when you take care of his issues. His Mag fed drop down Mini-G has the parts in it from the photo's I gave him. His "Mini-Garand" is designed from the photo's I gave him. Even though he's continents away, you'd think you'd still get a reach around. Oh well, silly Germans.

[Cal30M1]

International copyright infringement?

[timshufflin]

11-16-2009, 11:56 AM
Jenssweden
Junior Member

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 38
iTrader: 0 / 0%

i think i have the The first version standard Garand follower rod.se my pic om my garand tanker sorry for the bad pic. the second pic is from a standard garand and a tanker i found on internat can this be the problem?
Quote:

i think i have the The first version standard Garand follower rod.se my pic om my garand tanker sorry for the bad pic. the second pic is from a standard garand and a tanker i found on internat can this be the problem?

.................................................. ............................................

there are two versions of the follower rod used in Tankers. The first version is a standard Garand follower rod. This requires a very short spring of approx. 12 1/2" in length.
The second version of a Tanker follower rod has a weld blob built up, about 1 inch or so from the bend, and the 2 "wings" near the spring end removed. This allows the spring to slip over the end and slide down to the Weld. This modification allows the use of a longer spring of about 15 3/4".
i have the first one. the first pic is my tanker the second pick is a orginal garand and a tanker i found on internet the third is a tanker whith magazine fed m14 magazine i found on internet can this be the problem?

.................................................. ..................................................

you just can;t cut the spring... you have to move the stop on the link bar too- it normally catches about 3 inches from the follower arm... you gotta ove it to within .5 inch. More spring length = less spring power per compressed length= better, smoother loading and releasing of spring. (the reason some sub comp pistols use double mounted springs instead of one really short stiff spring.

.................................................. .............................................

Herbert! Can these forum posts to be of any help or are you already familiar with this?

Sincerely,

Dick



--- Den ons 2009-10-28 skrev Waffen Werle <[email protected]>:

Från: Waffen Werle <[email protected]>
Ämne: Re: [!! SPAM] Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders
Till: "Dick Qvarnström" <[email protected]>
Datum: onsdag 28 oktober 2009 14.48

Hello Dick,

well, the identification is still the same because the receiver
itself tells everyone by the engraving "U.S. Rifle Cal. .30 M1.

Also all my paperwork and documents for the German
proofhouse tests will be submited just as Garand Rifle.

I will do my best but not all of your ideas I be able to do!

Sincerely, Herbert

----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Qvarnström
To: Waffen Werle
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 9:21 PM
Subject: Re: [!! SPAM] Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders

Hello again!

Thank you for responding to my question so quickly! First of all let me say that it is good for me to get some perspective on the name issue ...!

Back to the main question.I actually suspect that some m14-parts would be needed. If I manage to find these parts and you build that weapon, can I still see that there is a Garand identificaton somewhere? This is important because my license (permnit) will be for Garandrifle.


--- Den tis 2009-10-27 skrev Waffen Werle <[email protected]>:

Från: Waffen Werle <[email protected]>
Ämne: Re: [!! SPAM] Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders
Till: "Dick Qvarnström" <[email protected]>
Datum: tisdag 27 oktober 2009 19.29

Hello Dick!

first of all, Dick is also a good old family name here in Germany.
This name stands for quality products in special tools, engraving
tools and so on - for more than hundred years. Dick means also
in german the opposite of thin...

Normally your wish to create a short M 14 copy would not be a problem
for me but for this work I need also some M14 spare parts I can not
get here in Germany!

Below there is a parts list I would need, maybe you will get them!

M 14 Operating Rod
Operating Rod Spring Guide
Operating Rod Guide
Front Band
Complete Gas Cylinder
Gas Cylinder Lock
Gas Piston
Gas Cylinder Plug

The main problem to shorten a M1 Garand Rifle is the Operating
Rod. I have to cut it for more than 16 centimeter and the recoil
spring too! The Spring power of the shortened Garand recoil spring
is much less than the power or the pressure of the original M 14
recoil spring.

A loaded 20 round M14 Magazine will have to much spring pressure.
So a shortend M1 Garand will not have the force to feed the cartridge
out of the magazine in direction to the chamber.

A normal Rilfle M1 Garand in the original size will not have this feeding
problem so in this case you can use also the 20 round magazine!

Best regards,

Herbert

----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Qvarnström
To: Bernd Sahlin
Cc: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 9:20 PM
Subject: [!! SPAM] Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders

Hello Herbert!

My name is Dick from Sweden. (You have to excuse the name but my name is actually so..)
I have a little Garandprojekt as Bernd Sahlin on Mikros Weapons in Sweden have spoken to you about the recent past.

As you may remember, I want a Garand with a 18 " barell that can handle a 20-shot magazine.
Today he tried to explain to me why this combination is not working together, but I still do not understand why? I think this is very difficult to understand that this is impossible when the M14, which is based on the Garand, can be purchased in 22 ", 18" and 16 "versions. http://www.ozarkguns.com/Springfield%20Rifles%206mar08/scoutSquad.htm

My wish is to get a Garand so like an M14 as possible, because with an M14 is very difficult to get "racing license" in Sweden and for hunting, it is quite impossible. If you manage to fulfill my desire technically and visually, then my luck is total!

Can you meet this challenge, Herbert??

Sincerely, Dick

[timshufflin]

RE: Special Garand Tanker 18" 20 rounders‏

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Tim Shufflin
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Sir, I do not use any M14 parts to make a M1 Garand work with an M14 magazine. Two parts have to be made, an oprod spring guide and a spacer block. I've attached a photo showing the two parts installed internally on the M1 Garand. The spring for this modification is a standard M1 Garand spring with the small opening end cut off. The length of the spring is reduced to allow proper operation of the gas system. Go slowly, cutting off a coil or two at a time. I cannot sell any parts over seas because of our silly laws.

Thanks,
Tim Shufflin
shuffsparkerizing.com
http:myforum.shuffsparkerizing.com/user/discussion.aspx?id=147673
For quality M1 Garand, M1 Carbine and M1903 restorations
Shuff's Parkerizing LLC
8300 Walworth Rd.
Jerome, MI 49249
517-688-3415 Call me any day between 9AM and 9PM EST.





Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2010 14:47:38 +0000
From: [email protected]
Subject: Special Garand Tanker 18" 20 rounders
To: [email protected]

Hey, Tim! I have admired your garandmodd ever since I heard about your rifle. Yes, even in Sweden, actually!

I have recently got stuck in a Werleprojekt in Germany. He needs a number of M14-parts to get a Garand to work with a full magazine. These parts are very difficult to find in Germany and Sweden. You can see Werle´s answer further down in this email.

Could this not be done without M14-parts? Plus Wolff Recoil Spring M1 Garand Tanker Model and Schuster DCM Adjustable Gas Plug with Wrench M1 Garand Steel Parkerized.

If there are any special things needed, Can I order them from you?

If you have any good tips, I would like to show them to my gunsmith Werle in Germany. Werle also produces very fine gun in Tanker Model. http://www.waffen-werle.de/inhalt/gara_bild.htm

Sincerely,

Dick Qvarnström

--- Den sön 2009-12-06 skrev Waffen Werle <[email protected]>:

Från: Waffen Werle <[email protected]>
Ämne: Re: [?? Probable Spam] VB: Re: Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders
Till: "Dick Qvarnström" <[email protected]>
Datum: söndag 6 december 2009 14.05

Hello!

I took a closer look on the three pictures you have sent.

It seems to me - maybe is my own work!

As I build now Garand Riles for over 15 years in any version,
so I have to say that not only one shortened Tanker Garand will
work perfectly with a 20 round magazine.

First a shortened Garand have a short operating rod and also it
must have a shorter recoil spring. Second the Garand receiver
and bolt is sized for the long ammo .30-06 Springfild and not for
the .308 Win.
While firing, each bolt recoil have a long backward travel a shorter
travel will not cock the hammer. You may shorten the follower spring
one third of its lenght but this will be not enough to reduce the cartridge
preasure of a full loaded 20 round M 14 magazine! The real problem is
to feed the first seven cartridges out of the 20 round magazine into the
chamber.

I think the best way is to use some parts of the M14 "gassystem"

Best regards, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year


Herbert Werle
----- Original Message -----
From: Dick Qvarnström
To: Waffen Werle
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 10:26 PM
Subject: [?? Probable Spam] VB: Re: Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders

Hello!

I am curious if you have found a solution to my project. Is there any substance in those forums tips you received?

If possible, I would soon like to give the green light to get you started modifying a Garand ...!

Sincerely,

Dick

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/showthread.php?p=588132


--- Den ons 2009-11-25 skrev Dick Qvarnström <[email protected]>:

Från: Dick Qvarnström <[email protected]>
Ämne: Re: Special Garand m14 18" 20 rounders
Till: "Waffen Werle" <[email protected]>
Datum: onsdag 25 november 2009 00.10

Hello Herbert!

Hope you feel good in these times of flu ...! My 12 year old daughter has been sick now for over a week. She is fortunately much better now ...!

If you're wondering why I have not responded in recent weeks, it's because I am still looking for the spare parts you need. If I understand you correctly, you will get with this set up. cartridge feed to work fine with a 20-rounders. Have I understood you correctly?

Unfortunately, it is these days quite difficult to find U.S. parts, which all who live outside the U.S. now "spewing bile over" (swedish expression ...).

If I abandon "The M14 look like a concept" and stick to "tanker-length" 18 ", my question is if you can overcome feeding problems using the following tips from an American online forums (Calguns)? I hope that you not mind that I've been looking for other solutions!? I'm an amateur and you are a pro in gunsmithing! I really want to make this work!

.................................................. .................................................. ..................................
I have a friend that has a tanker garand with M14 mag conversion that runs good.

When you shorten the spring, I would check that you only shorten it the minimum amount that is required so that the spring does not go "solid" at full bolt travel.

So for example, you are shortening the op-rod by 16cm, but you may only need to shorten the spring by 6-10 cm.

.................................................. .................................................. .....................

First of all, there are two versions of the follower rod used in Tankers. The first version is a standard Garand follower rod. This requires a very short spring of approx. 12 1/2" in length.
The second version of a Tanker follower rod has a weld blob built up, about 1 inch or so from the bend, and the 2 "wings" near the spring end removed. This allows the spring to slip over the end and slide down to the Weld. This modification allows the use of a longer spring of about 15 3/4".

#7
11-16-2009, 11:56 AM

[timshufflin]

International copyright infringement?


Uhm, doesn't really matter. How much money do you think it would cost to do anything to square this guy up? A BUNCH of money in a legal system that is not mine. I could go on all day with the emails I've sent to his customer trying to help him out with his smiths (Werle) gun project for him. Heck, I even have emails from Werle thanking me for my help. I don't care if he does the rifle in Germany but for Gods sakes, don't act like he even knew how to do it. His original rifle was an 18" piece and only when I sent him my photo's of the issues I thought he was having was he suddenly 16".

Moral of the story? There are no Moral's of hardly anyone anymore.

[Orlando]

First Karl Maunz now this guy, maybe you have screw me written on your forehead?

[timshufflin]

First Karl Maunz now this guy, maybe you have screw me written on your forehead?

Karl Maunz was not first. Another guy from Ohio was first, maunz second, germany third.

[Orlando]

I forgot about the mag fed fiasco.
As far as the guy in Germany goes "Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

[Prince Humperdink]

I promise I will not make copies of the Mini abomination,or any other projects...see,I have morals!

[VitSports6]

Maybe its time to re-invade Germany with our Garands ;)

[grumpyoldretiredcop]

Tim, I know you're not that kind of guy... but I wouldn't mind if you reverse engineered his scope mount setup - just the forward half to put a mini-reddot on our Mini-Gs (unless he swiped that from you too).

[seaninmich]

too bad we don't have a decent attorney in the gang...

[Cal30M1]

Looks like he fed you the frankfurter there Big Guy!

[ordmm]

Well this whole thing reminds me of this........is there a Basil Shufflin out there?......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk

[mikebaker1129]

Yes, but we all know you did it 1st !
That is allright his needing "M14 parts" to get it running right sounded like a excuse to why he could not get it off the ground running.
I have admired that scope mount and thet Mag catch for some time.
Sounds pretty typical these days,you help someone and get shit on. We still love you Shuff daddy!

[timshufflin]

I wouldn't reverse engineer anything he has. If I did, I'd be stealing the design from the guy he stole it from originally.

[grumpyoldretiredcop]

Which is why I said "I know you're not that kind of guy"... that's not a bad thing. Wonder if Herr Werle has trouble looking himself in the face in the mirror in the morning?