I trust those that run the forum, because I do not.
Internet Argument Pyramid
I trust those that run the forum, because I do not.
Internet Argument Pyramid
Well, as of last night i was letting this go. I did, however, check to see if the thread that spurred my involvment was deleted...it was not, much to my chagrin.
"Counselor", your opening statement and defending arguments are not only poorly researched, they are deeply flawed as you are wrong on every point in your appeal. You should have done your homework before representing your client, ruggedterrain40. If you had simply researched past threads for RT40, you would be privy to the fact that about 95.5% of the threads that RT40 has involvement in since his previous temporary ban has been lifted ARE indeed of the nature in which you described them not to be. He has violated many, if not all, of the standards put in place by the administrators of this message board, and all within a 24 hour time frame. I can go on and on if you need me to further elaborate, dogboysdad, but be forewarned, this is not my first rodeo in the courtroom.
For the rest of you that are in favor of appealing ruggedterrain40's ban on the argument alone of expressing speech freely, refer back to the Bill of Rights. Freedom of speech not mean you can say whatever you want, anywhere you want, to whomever you want without being held accountable for your actions. Without having to give you an entire lecture on the American Constitution, the Bill of Rights and amendments, you have the right to speak freely about concerns and the well being of the state in front of congress without being sentenced to punishment for your opinions. You cannot, however, say "bomb" in an enclosed public space without immediate reprocussions. Verbal threats are an expression of speaking freely, they are not expressions of free speech as you defend the term, and they can be held against you in a court of law. Keep in mind, we all have the right to remain silent; that IS black and white. Verbal assaults are considered slander, and depending on your state and local govt's laws, one could be locked up for making such remarks as those seen on these meeage boards in the last 36 hours. Do you need further elaboration?
Finally, to the moderators: what is your argument for allowing ruggedterrain40 to come back to these boards, again? This messasge board is a private entity where the creator(s) have complete jurisdiction over all of its members. You have the right to kick out whomever you wish and deny access to whomever you wish. If you feel the need to allow this member in question to return to said message board because of his Constitutional Rights, they need not apply here. However, this board has its own rules and regulations (or constitution as it were) that we as members have all agreed to abide by. RuggedTerrain40 has violated all of said community standards on this message forum numerous times, has been banned twice (to my knowledge) and you are in favor of inviting him back once more to disturb, offend and threaten your members in good and high standing? Yes, this is your website and you can do just about anything you want with it, but why would you allow and encourage that behavior to go on?
One more thing, i am absolutely dumbfounded that the moderators have not removed the explicit thread that they know sparked my involvment onthis discussion board. Changing the wording around does absolutely nothing to make the situation right, nor does substituting characters and symbols for the derrogatory language. RuggedTerrain40 violated every one of the board's standards with his comment regarding taking indecent liberties with Cuppednlocked's wife, that would be me in case there is any confusion. The thread which started out as harmless took a turn right into sexually explicit and violent in nature, and it should be removed out of respect for the members immediately.
My closing argument is this: moderators, keeping people like RuggedTerrain40 away from your message board may not be a cure-all to nasty banter on these forums, and you have the right to grant him another chance, but is it more important to look out for his best interest or the best interest of your members as a whole? That is the question that i leave you with.
Post Script, since i do not have permission to enter the war room and vote in the poll that pertains to this thread, please note that my vote would be to ban RuggedTerrain40 from this discussion board permanently, just in case i didn't make my opinion clear enough in my arguments above.
Hear! Hear!
"I am the master of my unspoken words, and a slave to those that should have remained unspoken. ...
"Official 2010 Mini-G & 2011 Summer Postal Shoot Biggest Looser"
Originally Posted by TheWIFE
All that need be done is a PM from those offended asking for a removal of a post or offending part. I'm dumbfounded that somebody that would want something offensive gone would not ask for it to be gone. Frankly, the reply to the "offensive" post made me a little unsettled as well but I can live through it. It is not up to me to be a mind reader, if someone thinks something stinks, please email me the offending text and tell me what you want done. I will consider it every time.
Of course the risk of doing this is creating a giant sissy forum where nothing can be said lest someone's feelings are hurt. We would sit around all day talking about tea and crumpets, banter about the good old days, and wish each other Merry Christmas with no geographical flavor, no insults, no anything except for what the typical Human Resources Department would allow at any fortune 500. Boring
One more thing, when something stupid is posted, it doesn't always have to be taking down the stupid item that punishes the purveyor of the stupidity. Leaving the stupid words up to haunt the offender is even more affective.
I look at RT40 as an educational experience and an eye opener, akin to watching the movie Deliverance and American History X for the first time.
When dealing with liberals, always attribute to malice what would ordinarily be attributed to incompetence.
"Of course it won't be easy; nothing worthwhile ever is. That is why I have always failed where others have succeeded."-Clouseau
Tim, it is clear where you stand. It is one thing to have hurt feelings, it is another to be threatened. I should not have had to private message you to ask you to remove the thread, you should have used your "better judgement" in that matter and deleted it on the spot when you became enlightened to it. Perhaps you should sit down and think long and hard about rewriting your forum standards so you dont find yorself in a position where you are contradicting yourself. And while you are sitting there and thinking about that, take some time to think about someone making comments like that about your wife and how she would handle it if she saw the thread for herself. My husband can fight his own battles as i can fight mine, but you showed him and your other members disrespect by allowing that thread to spiral out of control in the manner that it did. I did what i felt i needed to do since you DIDNT do what you should have done. So, with all do respect, would you please remove the thread if you have not already?
As a rule we have a pretty friendly crowd here, the members cross all social and economic slices of life. We have different beliefs on many subjects but we debate things without personal insults and, most of the time, without hurt feelings. Fortunately, this forum has not attracted rt40 types.
I don't have an answer for everything that can go on here. Every once in a while you let the Genie out of the bottle and see what is going to happen. There is no way anyone could foresee all the things that were said by rt40, yes you could say he would be bad but not this sick. Burying one's head in the sand does not make it so that rt40's are not there. rt40 is an anomaly in this group but believe it or not, there are forums completely dedicated to his type.
Is this what people want? Maybe I'm not in touch? What happens if someone does do this or slips up? Infraction? I could list just about every single person on this forum for these types of things. This is NOT a church. This is NOT a Politically Correct democratic convention hall. This is NOT a PC ridden fortune 500 HR department. If we all want a lilly white facade you better be able to take it when you blub up. Can you take it? Well can you?
Heck, I can't even edit the profanity out of someone's post without them crying like I edited their rendition of Common Sense. These are not valuable, awe inspiring prose we're writing here folks so let's not pretend they are. On the other hand, I'll either give you a Nanny state or something other than that. I will not meet in the middle.
Again RT was not alittle slip of profanity /and personal attack , I myself removed the F bomb and other #### from 4 posts, not to mention all the posts you had to edit
Personally I have not seen anyone else on the forum 'slip' this many times in 24hrs, maybe I am blind
As a mod I have asked several people to edit the signature lines to more PG rated and reminded them of language and no one else sent me a colorful PM .
Bottom line IMO take it to the War Room
Its your site Tim, do as you feel is right.
Your Humble Servant ,Orlando
"I am the master of my unspoken words, and a slave to those that should have remained unspoken. ...
"Official 2010 Mini-G & 2011 Summer Postal Shoot Biggest Looser"
Yes Orlando, the spirit of what you say is dead ON! Like the federal government though, I cannot make any rule that some clever individual cannot get around. I count on the people on this forum to let me know EXACTLY what has buzzed their bonnet and EXACTLY what they want done about it. Orlando, you have made it clear on several occasions when you want to remove something. I'll ask you, did someone bring the offending post to your attention or were you just getting the sense that what was written was wrong? Are we going to say that you can't say $h1t using symbols? Most forums out there allow this. The CMP forum, a lilly white forum by many standards, allows the use of the word asshole. In fact, I've seen a progression of foul language that has started to appear over there.Again RT was not alittle slip of profanity /and personal attack , I myself removed the F bomb and other #### from 4 posts, not to mention all the posts you had to edit
Personally I have not seen anyone else on the forum 'slip' this many times in 24hrs, maybe I am blind
As a mod I have asked several people to edit the signature lines to more PG rated and reminded them of language and no one else sent me a colorful PM .
Bottom line IMO take it to the War Room
Its your site Tim, do as you feel is right.
Your Humble Servant ,Orlando
If I could have my absolute own way, I would allow ANYTHING just as I do in the war room. There is not one among us who has not used foul language and the feigning of disgust when we see it typed is comical to me. Ever see Christmas Story? The kid is asked where he heard the word F*&K from, he makes it clear he hears it from the old man on an almost daily basis but he can't tell his mother that even though she listens to it right along with him, it's comical. The war room is my compromise for language and arguing, the compromise was broken by rt40, and the chronological time period went something like this;
1. About 12:05am I found the first rt40 blub as I was going to bed, I edited it and sent a warning but had no idea if he got the warning, how would I?
2. I found an entire series more of blubs by rt40 between the hours of 12:05am and 1am. I warned him on the next one too but again, had no idea how to tell if he got the warning and the other stuff I read was all already written before he got the second warning.
3. I then started giving infractions even though I didn't know if he got the warnings. I had read in my software that three infractions gets you banned and at this point I didn't care. The ban would be a temporary ban which would get me through a week of time while I thought about what to do with the guy.
4. Thinking I had banned rt40 for at least a week, I wake up and see he's been posting again! Oh, I say, I only had given him two infractions, I give him another thinking it's done and go to work.
5. I'm in my shop working and check my email and see more heck breaking loose but there's nothing I can do at that time because frankly I can't see my little phone screen well enough to navigate around the forum admin software.
6. When I come in there are reported posts all over the place, more infraction by Orlando, blah blah blah.
7. I see arguments that are just sick and replies that are not sick but also break forum rules. I would love to just delete posts but I can't read minds. Do people want posts left up so that the person can be held accountable and others can see what an ass hat the offender is? I simply change the profanity and let it go. It is up to the offended to make their feelings clear, not up to me to read minds.
8. Because I don't delete things does NOT mean I don't care. It means I respect the opinions and freedoms of others and they must know what they want for themselves.
9. I was also furious at the religious attacks on both the Muslim and Jewish faiths, many here don't seem to care squat about that. I cared but I let it go waiting for someone who cared to let me know that they wanted it down.
In conclusion, I have stuff to do just like everyone else and I will make mistakes, I will appear insensitive, I will not act fast (unless I'm working on a project for someone), but I will ALWAYS CARE. Please though, just communicate if your offended by something or what you want to happen may never happen. I may even disagree with someone who wants something taken down but don't judge me unless you communicate.
Peace, God Bless, Alah Bless, Jehovah Bless, Happy New Year!
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