Real Deal or Reproduction??

[timshufflin]

Bill Ricca is a specialist in knowing manufacturer's codes. When he says it's right, it's right!

I'm not saying I don't believe him, I'm just saying I don't believe any one person. That may frustrate some, but I like my information from several sources. I've really enjoyed this thread. Neat information from everyone and kind of a funny room to have it in.

[Dave]

The original link isn't working for me so I can't see the pic. Anyway, here is a pic of a band I found on the CMP forum. It is identical to the one that came on my 5.8 SA from the CMP. Anyway, mine is worn so I know it wasn't CMP replacement metal. Going through vci packaged bands at Tony Giacobbe's we came across some that were identical to mine. Bill Ricca said he has seen them before also. Stu

I've had bands like this one pictured come on past CMP rifles. Always figured they were replacements for rebuilds.
Also once got a fake WRA hammer on a CMP rifle. All sorts of stuff can make it "into the system".

[Orlando]

I'm not saying I don't believe him, I'm just saying I don't believe any one person. That may frustrate some, but I like my information from several sources.

Normally I agree with that statement Tim but Bill Ricca has acsess on info to research contracts on aprox 200,000 items from WWII and many from the mid 1960's to approx. 2003.

If anybody has the contract number its a good chance he would be able to find out who made it when. He has identifified around 15 fake contracts on the Auction Boards. Some fakers are now wrapping stuff and sealing them with contract numbers.

[timshufflin]

Normally I agree with that statement Tim but Bill Ricca has acsess on info to research contracts on aprox 200,000 items from WWII and many from the mid 1960's to approx. 2003.

If anybody has the contract number its a good chance he would be able to find out who made it when. He has identifified around 15 fake contracts on the Auction Boards. Some fakers are now wrapping stuff and sealing them with contract numbers.

If Mr. Ricca doesn't have the contract numbers that doesn't mean that some other contract does not exist, it only means that Ricca does not have it. UNLESS, of course, the Contract Ferry can certify that Ricca has EVERY single contract number.

[Orlando]

Absolutly Tim
He never nor I suggested any different.



The fakers are smart enough or dont have info to put the right item with the contact number

[Rick B]

Punches was normal and not cast but stamped. These replacement and that is all they are is replacements were not military made for WWII or Korea. I don’t care if the Government contracted them out you are going to have a hard time selling them as originals because they are not.

I fully understand Bill verifying them as correct but they are not Garand Originals that has been my whole point. If they are considered correct than any manufacture even today has to be said to be correct. Just because a nice package and numbers were dedicated to the contract for REPLACEMENTS is found doesn’t make them correct or real. To a shooter they are great but we all know to a collector these are not Original Garand bands.

Springfield Armory makes all M14 parts now since they are not able to get ahold of them. These bands are the same thing and cannot be considered original equipment. That is all I am saying. Does this make sense? Rick B

[timshufflin]

Punches was normal and not cast but stamped. These replacement and that is all they are is replacements were not military made for WWII or Korea. I don’t care if the Government contracted them out you are going to have a hard time selling them as originals because they are not.

I fully understand Bill verifying them as correct but they are not Garand Originals that has been my whole point. If they are considered correct than any manufacture even today has to be said to be correct. Just because a nice package and numbers were dedicated to the contract for REPLACEMENTS is found doesn’t make them correct or real. To a shooter they are great but we all know to a collector these are not Original Garand bands.

Springfield Armory makes all M14 parts now since they are not able to get ahold of them. These bands are the same thing and cannot be considered original equipment. That is all I am saying. Does this make sense? Rick B

Rick, I fully understand what you mean, I think, but I'm not sure you have explained it as it should be.

Are you saying that the government contracted out for replacement parts to be made but that;
A. Some of the contract parts were never used by the military under any circumstance.
B. The parts were simply replacement parts and never original equipment design/style/or look

Regarding "B", that is to say the lower band, in this instance, fit like a lower band, looked like a lower band, was made to military specs like a lower band BUT was never used as original equipment and had some details of design that were different than original equipment.

[Orlando]

No doesnt make sense to me, how are they any different than any other parts that were made by subcontractors
They made many Garand spare parts in this time frame as we had Garands in Vietnam and had Garands in National Guard units.
I understand they arent "correct" for any original builds but I cannot see how anyone can call them fake. They are not modern day made replacements made for civilian use ,.
I bought them to build rifles with and the fit is tight, they should work great

[timshufflin]

No doesnt make sense to me, how are they any different than any other parts that were made by subcontractors
They made many Garand spare parts in this time frame as we had Garands in Vietnam and had Garands in National Guard units.
I understand they arent "correct" for any original builds but I cannot see how anyone can call them fake. They are not modern day made replacements made for civilian use ,.
I bought them to build rifles with and the fit is tight, they should work great

They are USGI, I would think BUT they are not parts that can ever be considered correct. Subcontractors like Hart made parts that were actually installed on original rifles from the factory. Other subcontractors made parts that were not actually installed on original rifles from the factory. If your part is USGI, great, but that doesn't make it any different from any other commercial part that was never installed on a rifle. The quality of the USGI after market part may be better than a commercial after market part but the opposite might also be true.

Remember, in most cases EVERYTHING that the private sector makes is better than what a government contractor will make. Those lower bands on Punch the Clowns rifle, to me they are junk because I don't like a great big giant casting sprue on the top of my band. I know that Punch's band will work the same, function the same, but it looks like hell. I see much better lower bands made today by commercial interests.

[Orlando]

I agree, they are USGI replacements and not correct for any rifle as original. I thought that was a given as they were made until the late 60's

I was just trying to find out if these were actually modern made or not as they were advertised as repalcements
If I paid for earlier made replacement parts and was sent modern day commercial made I would have returned them as thats not what I was lead to believe

I had never seen cast parts except for madern day made. Atleast I learned from all this and hopefully someone else did to