Useable M1 Garand Ammo

[jason60chev]

Hello Battle Tested Friends....

on a couple of M1 Garand FB groups, it always comes up, from someone, about what ammo can be used in the rifle.
Seems some people don;t know how or just refuse to order ammo through the mail and want to go to their local gunshop or Walmart
to buy ammo. Mostly, people ask if the Remington Core-Lokt ammo is safe to fire in the rifle.

There is one person, who will always chime in with this:

Ammo.jpg

And goes into an diatribe about....almost argumentatively.....about the changes in the ammo, how the M1 was designed around M1 Ball
and how M2 Ball was developed because of the National Guard and that John Garand STATED, himself, that M2 Ball was to be used only for training.
I think that I have gotten under his skin, asking him to reference all of this, because he seems to become very angry that anyone would question him.
But her is the one who originally stayed that people who don;t understand the M1 gas system would believe anything the hear standing in line at a gun show.
He also references the CMP booklet regarding which ammo can be fired in the rifle.

I do not have access to my Hatcher book nor anything else beyond the internet because I am overseas.

So.....what do you all say regarding what ammo can or should be used in the M1? Can you back it up with references and not just because our daddy's said so?

Me....I am not fighting a war. I have 10,000 rounds of Greek HXP from the CMP. I hand load per the Hornandy book. I will not use any commercial ammo, because I do not need to purchase it. Much of this is all academic, yet it brings people to fisticuffs.

[timshufflin]

If you trust his study there is a guy on the CMP forum who rigged a M1 Garand Gas cylinder with a pressure testing device and ran tests on multiple ammunitions. The guy who did the study also runs a Garand site called Garand Gear and sells his own gas lock screw (essentially a variation of the BM59 gas lock screw). In his study he could hardly find a commercial ammunition that had any pressure much different than M2 ball.

Here's a link to his site and study http://www.garandgear.com/m1-garand-ammunition

[jason60chev]

With this statement, in the study from the web link, "... the M1 Garand in its current configuration is designed to use M2 ball ammunition."
I think that guy on the FB group will argue that the M1 rifle was designed for M1 Ball ammo. I guess because M1 Ball was about all there was at the time.
I don;t know if the change from Gas Trap to Gas port had any effect upon the type of ammunition.

I keep asking him to reference the quote from JCG about the use of M2 Ball being only for training.

There is also a side discussion about the issue and use of M2 AP ammo, suggesting that its most;y exclusive use in the war is an indication that M2 Ball
was to be only used for training. Well, wouldn;t issuing a single type of ammo across all weapons using the same ammo make sense?

[jeremy2171]

Does this help?

A newer study...

[Eli]

If JCG said it, it was probably in reference to the early 'gas trap' rifles and not in reference to a modern M1.

Eli

[jeremy2171]

The "M2 ball for training" comment probably came from the National Guards request to have more M1906 manufactured...which was later updated and renamed M2 ball...


The gas port garand was already developed BEFORE M2 ball was adopted.

[miketgtr71]

The M1906 cartridge fired a 150 grain flat based spitzer at around 2750 fps. After WW1 the military wanted the cartridge to have longer range (primarily for their machine gunners) & they did this in 1926 with the M1 cartridge, which had a 174 grain boat tail travelling at 2650 fps. All was going swimmingly until the military realized the longer range of the M1 cartridge exceeded the safe capacity of many national guard ranges, hence in '38 they brought out the m2, which tossed out a 150 grain flat based bullet at about 2800 fps & could safely be fired on ranges where the M1 round could not. During WW2 the m2AP round was preferred for combat, owing to all the metal involved on a battlefield thus the armor piercing part gave a better chance of actually reaching the enemy. Plain jane M2 ball was reserved for training while the M2 AP was shipped to the front lines.

Ol' JC was told to switch back to the '06 in '32 (after messing with the .276 Pederson). At that time the M1 was officially the service cartridge so he likely designed it with that cartridge in mind. JC did try to destructive test one of his rifles. He got up to a 120,000 psi proof load before the left bolt lug cracked. He then went on to fire several thousand rounds of standard (presumably M1) ammo through it with no further signs of damage.

I won''t give ya chapter & verse, but this is what I recall reading from Hatcher, as well as Baumgardner, Duff, Ricca & a few others. It's likely someone mistakenly claimed JC said the M2 was only for training to lend some sort of authenticity to the practice that it was used mainly for training. as for one type of ammo it makes a lot of sense if you're running a warehouse. But accountants get involved, & M2 ball was likely cheaper than M2AP. Plus the M2AP had a slightly heavier bullet & may not have been safe of some of the ranges. Having several different loads is really a feature more than a bug, just as for our personal arms we like to be able to shoot different loads for different occasions.

American Eagle has a load specifically for the Garand, and most .30-06 Match ammo having 168 grain bullets is Garand safe (I'm thinking mainly of Hornady). The rest I view as suspect.

McCoy built up a few triple lugged rifles to shoot the 190 grain Sierra Match King. I can't recall if he disabled the gas system or just told his customers to load it one at a time (they were meant for 1,000 yard competition iirc, so single loading wouldn't have been a detriment). But I'm thinking with either a Schuster (or McCann) adjustable or Garand Gear gas cylinder lock screw that a heavy bullet & a Garand friendly powder shouldn't do any harm to the op rod (all other things being equal). I'm thinking of working up some 208 grain loads, & if I do I'll try to mention it here.

My Garands without adjustable (Schuster) or ported (Garand Gear) gas cylinder lock screws just get surplus or handloads. Then again so do my other Garands. Price is more of a factor (the frugality gene runs strong in my family), but I'd be hesitant on using any commercial ammo that I didn't have reason to believe was Garand safe (& I'd mainly worry about the powder being too slow more than the bullet weight).

With a good op rod spring & properly lubed, an unmodified Garand could probably run any commercial ammo just fine for a while, even ammo with heavier bullets or slower burning powders than are recommended. I wouldn't do it with mine though if I had other options. It depends mainly on how much faith you have in the ammo, how much risk you're willing to take, and if your blood pressure don't spike when you think of .06 ammo costing more than 68 cents a round. If I can work around those first two factors, that last one usually vetoes the other two.

[jeremy2171]

American Eagle has a load specifically for the Garand, and most .30-06 Match ammo having 168 grain bullets is Garand safe (I'm thinking mainly of Hornady). The rest I view as suspect.


My Garands without adjustable (Schuster) or ported (Garand Gear) gas cylinder lock screws just get surplus or handloads. Then again so do my other Garands. Price is more of a factor (the frugality gene runs strong in my family), but I'd be hesitant on using any commercial ammo that I didn't have reason to believe was Garand safe (& I'd mainly worry about the powder being too slow more than the bullet weight).

With a good op rod spring & properly lubed, an unmodified Garand could probably run any commercial ammo just fine for a while, even ammo with heavier bullets or slower burning powders than are recommended. I wouldn't do it with mine though if I had other options. It depends mainly on how much faith you have in the ammo, how much risk you're willing to take, and if your blood pressure don't spike when you think of .06 ammo costing more than 68 cents a round. If I can work around those first two factors, that last one usually vetoes the other two.

Looks like all commercial ammo is safe for a properly working/lubed garand..

[Punch The Clown]

The ammo used in WWII was mostly 30-06 M2 AP. Ball was used for training.
Disclaimer-I read this years ago so it may or may not be accurate.

I just re-read Mike's post and I see I just repeated what he said-Sorry

As far as commercial ammo goes the pressure is not the big concern. The brass and the primers are. Commercial brass is weaker and the primers are softer. I only shoot HXP or my own reloads in the Garand. In my BM59 and BM14 I use my own reloads on Lake City brass.

[jeremy2171]

commercial brass and primers aren't a concern in a garand..I've been using commercial primers for nearly 3 decades....commercial brass less since I have tons of GI brass.