The case that killed My 1917

[Prince Humperdink]

This is the case that failed and destroyed My Rifle.I set it next to a normal case for comparison.

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[Orlando]

So what really happened here Hump?
Would a bad case do that much damage or was it improperly loaded or loaded with wrong powder?
I cant see a weak case doing that much destruction, but what do I know?
Educate me, I dont know anything about this stuff
So have you pulled the trigger since the incident? I would have a real hard time with flinching after that:) Glad you are still here to tell the story my friend

[Prince Humperdink]

So what really happened here Hump?
Would a bad case do that much damage or was it improperly loaded or loaded with wrong powder?
I cant see a weak case doing that much destruction, but what do I know?
Educate me, I dont know anything about this stuff
So have you pulled the trigger since the incident? I would have a real hard time with flinching after that:) Glad you are still here to tell the story my friend

Bill,
I have no idea what happened.I always inspect My cases,didn't use any powder that I haven't used before,can't double charge because it wouldn't fit.I haven't had the chance to go back out,hopefully I can take M1's out tomorrow.Like I told My Mom,if You have a traffic accident You don't stop driving :)
Ryan

[wgandy]

Ryan,
I'm just throwing stuff out here, I don't know pooh squat about these things:
Could it be a head spacing problem? (but you said you inspect the cases so that's probably out as a possibility)
Excessive wear around the primer area??? I've started to notice that there's not as much resistance when setting primers on some of my reloads. (I'm on my 8th or 9th use on most of the cases.)

Have you been re-using your cases a lot of times or is this a new set of brass or what????

That's about as far as my shallow thinking will take me.

-wg

[LEAD POISON]

How would the case blow back like that if the bolt was in battery, full closed,and locked? Could have the cartridge been pushed in to far,but not out of reach for the pin??????

[Prince Humperdink]

How would the case blow back like that if the bolt was in battery, full closed,and locked? Could have the cartridge been pushed in to far,but not out of reach for the pin??????

That is what I was thinking.It passed headspace before I ever started firing it,but it fails now(I checked yesterday).

Wayne,that was the second loading of that case as far as I can remember..However,It was from some tarnished ammo originally.

[Big Ben]

case head seperation that started from the inside? You generally see a bright ring on the outside when the head is weak correct?
almost looks like when it blew the brass formed to the front of the bolt.

[Punch The Clown]

Ryan, I've read about catastrophic failures due to bore fouling. If you say the muzzle checks out fine with ball ammo, but there are no discernible grooves, you're trying to force a .308 bullet through a .300 hole. I think that'll raise the pressure substantially. Stu

By the way, the keyholeing I think reinforces my theory.

[Prince Humperdink]

Ryan, I've read about catastrophic failures due to bore fouling. If you say the muzzle checks out fine with ball ammo, but there are no discernible grooves, you're trying to force a .308 bullet through a .300 hole. I think that'll raise the pressure substantially. Stu

By the way, the keyholeing I think reinforces my theory.

Stu,it wasn't so much that it was filled in,just very pitted near the muzzle.There is visible rifling though.I finally had it shooting very well considering at 25 yrds,then......KABOOM!

[Prince Humperdink]

This was My last target.I was using 125 grn Sierra SP's.1st shot flying keyhole.The next 9 were through that blurry hole by the penny(25yrds,but before I worked with the muzzle it wasn't even hitting the paper!).Switched ammo,and targets and then it happened....:(

<a href="http://s490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/Bruner_Family/Guns/?action=view&amp;current=target002.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i490.photobucket.com/albums/rr266/Bruner_Family/Guns/target002.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[LEAD POISON]

Isn't that a little hard on the upholstery and loud in the house.
You should be reported for child abuse.

[Punch The Clown]

I'd still slug the barrel and mic it. Also, one of your targets has what looks like jacket separation.

[mixmaster]

Could be possible that the light weight bullets you are using had a separation of the bullet jacket. Leaving part of the jacket in the bore.that would act almost like a bullet still in the bore and give you tremendous chamber pressure. On this I speak from personal FU. Had a 310 Martini action I built into a 22 Hornet. This action is very strong and I thought I could really soup up the loads. Well after having the thin jacketed bullets blow up at the muzzle I changed to some bullets I had pulled from some mil ammo and loaded them. Guess what . The first round stripped its jacket and the second round pushed it out. Results look somewhat like yours. The evidence by the way was a strange and funny keyhole in the target.You could actually see the swagged collar around the bullet on the target.Not very clear but it showed up as an odd deformity on the target.BTW the only thing that suffered was the barrel as the head space was gone. Just a thought from my FU book.
Mix

[Schriv]

Was there any chance that the case fired prior to the kaboom seperated at the neck and left the front 1/4"-1/2" or so still stuck in the chamber? If you didn't pick it up or look at it after it ejected, you wouldn't have known.The kaboom round would have tried to seat against the shoulder of the previous case and with the cock on closure feature on the M1917, I could see it possibly touching off the primer while the round was not fully inside the chamber. Depending on how agressive you were in working the bolt, you probably wouldn't even notice the resistance as the bullet pushed into the seperated case.
It's just a theory based on a similar incident I saw on a Mauser board some years back. But that one didn't result in a destroyed gun.

[Prince Humperdink]

Was there any chance that the case prior fired to the kaboom seperated at the neck and left the front 1/4"-1/2" or so still stuck in the chamber? If you didn't pick it up or look at it after it ejected, you wouldn't have known.The kaboom round would have tried to seat against the shouldr of the previous case and with the cock on closure feature on the M1917, I could see it possibly touching off the primer while the round was not fully inside the chamber. Depending on how agressive you were in working the bolt, you probably wouldn't even notice the resistance as the bullet pushed into the seperated case.
It's just a theory based on a similar incident I saw on a Mauser board some years back. But that one didn't result in a destroyed gun.

We may have a Winner!I just got a light and looked from the breech.there is something wedged in the throat buti can't remove it.I know for a fact it wasn't there during the day before cleaning.

Stu,I slugged the barrell,and it was good.
Thanks for all the input Fellas....I also discovered that the Receiver now has a Hairline crack now :(

[Schriv]

Damn..Thats too bad about the receiver. So much for trying to rebuild her.
If you have a broken shell extractor, you may be able to pull out that obstruction. I wouldn't be too surprised if it's a mangled case neck.

[Prince Humperdink]

Damn..Thats too bad about the receiver. So much for trying to rebuild her.
If you have a broken shell extractor, you may be able to pull out that obstruction. I wouldn't be too surprised if it's a mangled case neck.

I got a flashlight and looked in.It is obstructed with several compressed bullet jackets(looks like a copper sandwiches) set just inside the throat.There must have been outrageous pressure as those bullets squeezed by.I will try to get it out for pics.That explains why it was keyholing so bad,every time must have left a jacket!

[Big Ben]

Why were they stripping off? Did a piece of the neck actually come off in the throat?

[rlelvis]

Any idea which bullets, weight or brand, were separating?

I know it’s no help now but I did have a distinct ring of rock hard fouling in one of my 1917 drill rifles, CMP purchase. It was just in front of the chamber. I shot some LC that my Garands did not like through it and once I got home I found some indications of high pressure; from flat primers to head deformation and even two that looked pierced. It was then that I found the ring of fouling. It looked like what I get when I shoot Triple Seven in my inline but ALLOT harder to remove. When I got the 1917’s the bores were rough and I cleaned them extensively before I shot them. I foamed them overnight a couple of times, I used countless patches and soak time with Shooter Choice, Hoppe’s, and Sweets and even dozens of passes with JB Paste. Figured they were good and anything left would be loosed with a trip to the range and a good hot bbl followed with some Hoppe’s. It was after that trip that I found the ring of crud. It actually took a pointed scribe held with vise grips and a flashlight to dislodge the ring of fouling. Once I broke pieces loose I was able to brush the rest out. Since I have not had any problems with cases or signs of pressure.

I know it’s absolutely no help now but if this contributed to the jacket separation it would be good to know.

[Prince Humperdink]

Any idea which bullets, weight or brand, were separating?

I know it’s no help now but I did have a distinct ring of rock hard fouling in one of my 1917 drill rifles, CMP purchase. It was just in front of the chamber. I shot some LC that my Garands did not like through it and once I got home I found some indications of high pressure; from flat primers to head deformation and even two that looked pierced. It was then that I found the ring of fouling. It looked like what I get when I shoot Triple Seven in my inline but ALLOT harder to remove. When I got the 1917’s the bores were rough and I cleaned them extensively before I shot them. I foamed them overnight a couple of times, I used countless patches and soak time with Shooter Choice, Hoppe’s, and Sweets and even dozens of passes with JB Paste. Figured they were good and anything left would be loosed with a trip to the range and a good hot bbl followed with some Hoppe’s. It was after that trip that I found the ring of crud. It actually took a pointed scribe held with vise grips and a flashlight to dislodge the ring of fouling. Once I broke pieces loose I was able to brush the rest out. Since I have not had any problems with cases or signs of pressure.

I know it’s absolutely no help now but if this contributed to the jacket separation it would be good to know.

Bob,thanks for the tip.I cleaned it almost like You said(except for JB)when I got it.It actually looks shiny from the breech,and it isn't until You look at the muzzle area You can see how pitted it is.I 'll have to find another receiver or rifle later on.
Ryan