Excess headspace question.

[Schriv]

I really need somebody to explain excess headspace to me.
More importantly, is there ANYTHING that can be done to correct it other than changing bolts and barrels? So..my question to the experts is this. Is proper headspace formed by a combination of the receiver AND the barrel/chamber, or is it solely determined by the barrel??
Here is the background story:
I have two M1’s with WWII serial numbers and barrels that may or may not have been original to the receivers. The 8-43 SA had a 7/43 barrel and the 2-44 had a 4/44 barrel. Both shot and cycled M1909 blanks just fine, but would close with no effort on a field gauge. Even changing from -12 to -2 bolts didn’t solve the problem. The 4/44 was a shot out smoothbore (swallows the gauge!) so changing it out didn’t bother me much, but the 7/43 had a ME of 3.0 and would probably still be on paper. There is no way I would ever want to fire M2 ball in either of them.
I already have two re-welds that serve as blank fire only guns for reenactments, so keeping these two limited to only blanks for the rest of eternity wasn’t the least bit appealing to me. And there was always the nagging thought of EXCESS HEADSPACE going around in my head every time I touched off a blank. Getting some ‘blowback’ in my face at a recent event made up my mind for me!! I have since changed out the barrels on both rifles and they are now 100% M2 ball and range ready once again. But that leaves me with two WWII barrels in excellent external shape that I can’t do a damn thing with. I’m not into wall hangers, so I’m looking for options.

I'm a Marine, so type slowly and don't use big words. I'm looking for a real solution if there is one and not a CMP style debate over the need to headspace.

[Orlando]

Nothing written in stone but a general list of bolt lengths form the shortest to longest:
-12SA
-14
-17
-19
-2
65-series

Try a NOS 65 series bolt

[Schriv]

Although I'm not a 'collector', I try to keep everything as correct as I can. Especially if it is something you can see without breaking down the rifle. I follow the 'Visually Correct' rule of collecting when it comes to my WWII rifles. My post wars are closer to being factory correct.
I had the right bolts in both and wanted to keep it that way. Those two rifles were the closest to being a correct grade WWII guns that I had. The trigger groups,Op-rods and sights were all correct for the rifle. Ditching the -12 bolts was a consideration, but only briefly. :) When both still closed easily on the field gauge with a NOS -2 bolt, I gave up on that.
I do need to get a couple of spare -65's to keep on hand though.

[Prince Humperdink]

Sometimes all it takes is a different Receiver to headspace.explain the problem,offer cheap,and Someone will buy Them.
Ryan

[seaninmich]

I have a few NOS 65 bolts.

[Schriv]

Ryan,
That's more or less what I'm looking for. I'd be willing to try the 7/43 on another 7 or 8/43 receiver if there is a chance that it would headspace properly. The 4/44 is pretty much useless for shooting but I would have left it on the original receiver if it had been in spec.

[Orlando]

Ryan,
That's more or less what I'm looking for. I'd be willing to try the 7/43 on another 7 or 8/43 receiver if there is a chance that it would headspace properly. The 4/44 is pretty much useless for shooting but I would have left it on the original receiver if it had been in spec.

There is always a chance. What brand gauge did you use?

[Schriv]

Forsters.
I have them in 30.06, .308, 8mm and .30 carbine.

[Orlando]

Next time you have a rifle fail the Field Gauge , if you have someone who has a Clymer brand borrow it to double check the rifle.
There has been instances where a rifle would fail on a Forester but pass with a Clymer.
I talked to Gus Fisher once about this and he told me that Clymers are more accuratly manufactured than Forester

[Punch The Clown]

There are armorers gages for the receiver and bolt. That would tell the tale. More than likely the receiver is just plain worn and the only thing you can do is put on a short chambered barrel and ream it. Stu

[Schriv]

Well, hells bells.
I'll just have to get me some Clymer gauges in all of my Mil-surp calibers. At least a field gauge. If they are more dimensionally accurate for mil-spec ammo, that is what I want. Since I do all the checking/fixing of my circle of friends M1's, I don't know of anyone that has any gauges to borrow. Mention gauging or anything more intrusive than swabbing the bore once a year and you will get a blank stare. It's enough to make you weep sometimes. Guys shoot the shit out of their rifles and then stick it in the closet until the next event. Blanks are dirty as hell and they wonder why it won't run.
Anyhow, I don't think the receivers are the problem since I spun on different barrels and they headspaced with no issues. Both are much better barrels than what I took off, but they are post war. That leaves the original barrels somehow growing longer in the chamber over the years. Hmmm..

[deputy85]

i have a few nos 65 bolts.

sean check your pm's