Watching Gold Rush, yah, you guessed it, my government is a bunch of losers.

[timshufflin]

So, America is an economic downturn of which we have not seen in decades. Folks are earning wages in Alaska mining gold. The Schnavel mine has not been inspected in 25 years or EVER. Only when the mine was advertised on Gold Rush were the STUPID government workers tipped off that they might inspect the mine.

Result? We shut down the jobs and livelyhoods of over 7 families. Yah, thanks for the help U.S. government, you really protected the miners from themselves and others.

Why do some of us believe government workers and leaders are complete Tarts? This crap summed it up.

[seaninmich]

I throw out my opinion of government workers here, but there would probably be a "should sean be banned" poll before midnight so I guess i'll just shut up on here from now on

[timshufflin]

LOL, shut another one down, we don't need jobs! We need the regulation that involves $4000 of fines and training. "We're regulating you, to protect the health and safety of the miners." LOL, what a BUNCH of LOSERS Msha is! The "regulator" seemed to be down at least 50IQ point from Dakota Fred. That's not amazing except for Dakota Fred seems to have an IQ of about 100.

[sandsnow]

MSHA, OSHA - all a bunch gov't panty wastes. Those gold miners up there - inept as some of them seem to be - are the true heart and soul of the American dream going back 200+ years. Why don't people get that? They are doing exactly what the pioneers did to build this country. Now the govt is going to turn around and tear down the country.

Oh and by the way Tim, next time call spoiler aleart - I haven't seen that episode yet :D

[Orlando]

As far as Dakota Fred, what goes around comes around.

[canes7]

Love that show. Dakota Fred is a dick, the Hoffmans are complete idiots and the Schnovels seem to be the only people that have something going for 'em.

[REHRIFLE]

I saw the show and my thoughts were the same as above. i.e. Government regulations choking industry and the IQ level of the enforcement dude was lower than a frogs.

And it's not too different from imposing a lifetime ban. Someone in a position of power decides to make rules to protect someone else. They were told to put up a fence to keep others from falling in a hole. It wasn't needed because the workers saw the orange barricade and avoided the hole. The same goes for a forum thread. You see who it's from and you avoid it by not opening it.

[timshufflin]

I saw the show and my thoughts were the same as above. i.e. Government regulations choking industry and the IQ level of the enforcement dude was lower than a frogs.

And it's not too different from imposing a lifetime ban. Someone in a position of power decides to make rules to protect someone else. They were told to put up a fence to keep others from falling in a hole. It wasn't needed because the workers saw the orange barricade and avoided the hole. The same goes for a forum thread. You see who it's from and you avoid it by not opening it.


That was pretty profound.

[canes7]

I'm guessing there wasn't enough minorities on the show.....

[sandsnow]

dakota Fred - Kim kardashian of the mining world

Hoffmans - Can anybody really be that clueless?

Parker - I'm pulling for the kid

[cuppednlocked]

Having been through the initial MSHA training and several annual updates I can tell you that the safety training is pretty simple.

The inspectors can find a violation ANYWHERE! Something as minor as a loose bolt on a railing is grounds for a citation and fine.

That being said, if you've been mining for 30 years it shouldn't be too difficult to follow enough of the rules to avoid being shut down. I didn't see the episode so am not sure what violations they had.

Dakota Fred should fall into the "glory hole".

[timshufflin]

dakota Fred - Kim kardashian of the mining world

Hoffmans - Can anybody really be that clueless?

Parker - I'm pulling for the kid


That "kid" is mature WAY beyond his years.

[canes7]

That "kid" is mature WAY beyond his years.

Either that or the other kids are not up to snuff with the maturity level.

It might be fun to watch the cast from Dealiest Catch run a mine.

[sandsnow]

That "kid" is mature WAY beyond his years.

There's one person who will never look for a govt handout.

[cwcdl79]

huh. and here I was thinking that those gvt bureaucracies are what create jobs for people like me...

[KnickKnack]

I saw that show too and thought basically the same thing. If this Government Agency is so necessary to keep these mines working safely, then why do they have an inspector come in one day, tell them what is wrong and then tell them that they need an instructer to come back and teach them about the problems? Why couldn't one person be doing the job of both? When the inspector shows up and ties up the mine for a day's worth of work, he should be knowledgable enough to point out the violation, teach the proper remedy, and then be sure the fix is made. Most of these "violations" were very minor and could be fixed within the same day. Instead, they close these mines down for 3 or more days while the repairs are made, another guy shows up to do the training, and then the inspector comes back to be sure the changes were made. Total waste of time, resources and money.

I'm pulling for the Kid too. Dakota Fred is a jerk. The Hoffman's are clueless and spending more than they make.

[cuppednlocked]

I saw the re-run of the episode last night.

The violations didn't shut down the mines, but rather the lack of MSHA approved safety training. I'll say it again, the inspectors WILL find violations, 100% of the time. All are considered equal in severity. When you hear of a below-ground mine having 100's of violations a year the media portrays it like the mine was destined to have a fatality. The reality is a loose bolt, loose safety cage, no parking brake set in a vehicle, no seatbelt worn on the property, etc will get you a violation.

As an example I had to carry with my my MSHA training certificate, ear plugs, first aid supplies, as well as have a hard hat and steel toed boots. If I did not carry my paperwork the operation would have been cited and fined. I wasn't even an employee but rather a volunteer supervising fossil collection in the pit. The drag-lines were at least a 1/4 mile from our location at the closest.

Because I walked around within the confines of a surface mining operation (absolutely nowhere near the actual operation) I had to go through the same safety training that below ground miners go through. The fact that the Schnabel's mine had not been inspected before says more for the inspection process rather than the people running the mine.

So what if the show brought them into the attention of the MSHA inspectors... you go on national tv and don't expect to be in the limelight??? It's not rocket science, you KNOW inspections take place but think you are above board and do not qualify?

HELLO... this is the Whatever Channel calling can we film you? Sure, let me get my shit straight before you guys get here.

[Prince Humperdink]

When I was a coal miner I couldn't wait for re-certification...all those cool safety videos were classic...once EVERY year wasn't near enough...LOL

Matt,I agree about the violations.We received them EVERY time we were inspected!

[cuppednlocked]

Damn Humpi, I learn more about you everyday!

[timshufflin]

I find it curious that someone can tell a free man how to dig the dirt on his land. I find it curious that someone can tell you ANYTHING about ANYTHING unless the thing being said infringes upon another person's freedoms. Do mining operations force people to work for them? If that is what the Schnabels are doing then by all means, let's inspect that mine. If however, the Schnabels are inviting other free men to come and work for them at their own free will, then this is absolutely upside down. osha, msha or any "sha" is absolutely some panty waist, sissy state, moronic, no good, uneducated voter wanting, way of meddling in a free man's affairs.

Get a grip people, when we are on someone else's land to work, we can do two things;
1. We can work and shut the hell up.
2. We can be aghast by what we are asked to do and leave.

We cannot tell the host that they must cater to our whim and serve us the home cooking we are accustomed to. If you believe that, I'll pray for you.

[cuppednlocked]

I get what you're saying, but the regulations were put in place to protect the miners. I think the level of anal-retentiveness of the inspectors should be examined!

Devil's Advocate:
You own a manufacturing company that operates machinery and kids are necessary to climb inside to clean, etc. It's a dangerous job and many are injured and sometimes killed. It's your property and you can do what you want without regulation and oversight?

Do you want your kid working there when you aren't sure if the owners have safety in mind?

[Roadkingtrax]

I feel better, my wife gives me grief for watching this train-wreck of a show. I really like the grandson, hope that I have the same energy level his grandfather does at 90+...must be that clean Alaskan air.

Digression alert: Fly Wild Alaska is a really good show too...the daughters are cute. :)

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium/no-guts--no-glory-p-47-don-struke.jpg

[timshufflin]

I get what you're saying, but the regulations were put in place to protect the miners. I think the level of anal-retentiveness of the inspectors should be examined!

Devil's Advocate:
You own a manufacturing company that operates machinery and kids are necessary to climb inside to clean, etc. It's a dangerous job and many are injured and sometimes killed. It's your property and you can do what you want without regulation and oversight?

Do you want your kid working there when you aren't sure if the owners have safety in mind?


The same thing that already happens now when negligence is show, you get sued. Nothing changes there, the difference is that people are free to choose on their own up until they infringe on another. I am not worried about miner safety, I could not care any less, I care about freedom.

[Punch The Clown]

Pay now or pay later. All this OSHA, NIOSH, MSHA, and tons of others impose safety and health standards in the work place. Compliance costs a fortune. Now, take all the free men that choose to disregard health and safety rules. They end up disabled and costing the taxpayers tons of money a year to support them, their families, medical care, etc. It's a lose-lose for the taxpayer.

[timshufflin]

Pay now or pay later. All this OSHA, NIOSH, MSHA, and tons of others impose safety and health standards in the work place. Compliance costs a fortune. Now, take all the free men that choose to disregard health and safety rules. They end up disabled and costing the taxpayers tons of money a year to support them, their families, medical care, etc. It's a lose-lose for the taxpayer.


Maybe I wasn't clear, I don't care. I just don't care in the least what other free men do. Give yourself the cancer from smoking, don't care. Drive without insurance and get in a bad accident while needing home medical for life, don't care. Work at a mine, get hurt, need life long care, don't care.

Your premise pre supposes that I am some how on the hook for caring. That I am somehow accountable to pay for every single person who screws up and will NOT take care of themselves, I could not care any less about these people.

Your premise is not correct therefore I cannot argue the point.

[Punch The Clown]

When I last looked at my tax return there was no check box saying "I choose not to pay for all these people with self-imposed injuries and illnesses, whether real or imaginary". I see pricks everyday on DIS SSI with imaginary back injuries and assorted other maladies. Show me the box that says I won't pay for these pricks anymore and I'll check it off gladly.

[timshufflin]

You also don't see the box that says you don't have to have some government fool inspect your mine but here I am talking about it. This thread is not about what is but about what should be.

[canes7]

WTH is with this time-out BS?

If I take longer than 2 sec. to post it times out. Does not make it easyt to be very verbose.

[timshufflin]

WTH is with this time-out BS?

If I take longer than 2 sec. to post it times out. Does not make it easyt to be very verbose.

I don't know, not sure what is happening.

[cuppednlocked]

I believe you have to have some standards set to actually be negligent. If there were no regs or guidelines to follow there would only be chaos. You can't live in a society without laws. People are inherently bad, give most a chance to do the wrong thing and they will do it.

You want total freedom? The answer is to completely withdraw from society.

I doubt you complain about the other restrictions to your freedom on the road... those pesky speed limits!

Even the Founding Fathers had rules in place to govern.

[timshufflin]

I believe you have to have some standards set to actually be negligent. If there were no regs or guidelines to follow there would only be chaos. You can't live in a society without laws. People are inherently bad, give most a chance to do the wrong thing and they will do it. You want total freedom? The answer is to completely withdraw from society. I doubt you complain about the other restrictions to your freedom on the road... those pesky speed limits!

Even the Founding Fathers had rules in place to govern.


I don't know how many people I have to say this too but here goes again. I'm not saying I want anarchy, what I want is freedom so long as your freedom does not infringe on another. It's really a simple concept to grasp. When I'm on a road, I don't own the road so that's what I call a strawman argument. My argument was specifically for a person who owns their own business on their own land and invites someone to come and work there.

Under this situation, NOBODY has their freedoms infringed upon by following or not following some stupid government regulation. If the Schnabels are mining gold, and they hit someone with a steam shovel, that person had their freedom violated and a law suit is in order. If the Schnabels are mining gold, and someone steps into a hole not guarded with a warning, the law will again have the answer.

The regulations that my inept government makes up to solve for another law that already exists is laughable. You all already know this though don't you? Repetitive gun laws are a prime example.

I can assure you all that the founding fathers would NOT have had a law to tell someone how to run a mine on their own property. Heck they wouldn't have even taxed it!

[cuppednlocked]

Ok then, if you own the land you can do what you want as long as no one else is infringed upon. To a certain degree I agree with you.

Hunting seasons are dictated by the govt. They tell you how and what you can do on your own property. At what point should your use be restricted for the common good? Should you be free to eliminate every animal from your property? Animals don't know property lines. The animals from your neighbor wonder onto your land... and you kill them too. Now your freedom has infringed upon your neighbor.

What if you don't own the land? Getting back to the thread, I don't know if the Schnabels own their claim or lease it. I know the Huffman's lost theirs to Dakota Fred because they missed a lease payment. The owner would have to dictate what policies are in place. Once that happens the system of control is now in place.

I agree that the govt is far too involved in daily life, and politicians establish laws because the average Joe is "too dumb" to think for themselves.

What you seek is impossible in society. The nature of living within a group of people is that certain "freedoms" are given up for the common good. You are supposed to have the liberty to make your own decisions within the social context.

Adams addressed the need for and the role of govt:

Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.

John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Men must be ready, they must pride themselves and be happy to sacrifice their private pleasures, passions and interests, nay, their private friendships and dearest connections, when they stand in competition with the rights of society.

John Adams, letter to Mercy Warren, April 16, 1776

I think people should be concerned not for "freedom" per se, but rather "liberty" to be safe from tyrannical govt, religious persecution, etc. The two things do not necessarily mean the same thing. We have the freedom to try and change the govt to fit society. Unfortunately the people "we" put in office in our recent history have a different direction than you or I have.

[KnickKnack]

I have been a firefighter for 40 years. When I first started, I already knew where my helmet, canvas coat and rubber hip boots were kept on the truck. I knew that you put water on the fire and eventually it would go out. I was taught how to do this all safely by guys that had "been there, done that" and learned from their mistakes. Some had been taught by the Government, via their time in the Navy. But we had no regulations. We did have Government instructors available if we wished to use them. Other then smoke inhalation and a few minor burns once in awhile, none of our guys got seriously hurt or killed. Those from other fire departments that had been burnt learned fast not to do that stupid things again and were quick to tell others of their mistakes. Now, we have tons of OSHA training that is repetitive each year and takes time away from our actual firefighting training. Much of what is in the training does not even apply to us and is boring. I have yet to see a video or a piece of paper protect a life. I can assure you that 95% of the people who take this training go away feeling the same way as when they entered the room. Either they will act in a safe manner or they won't. It's personal choice and responsibility. You can't change people with a Government program. All you can do with that is make the Government richer and bigger. Each year, the standards and regulations changed, based on one incident or because some manufacturer needs to sell more stuff. For example, we all used to wear our helmets in the truck while on the way to a fire. Now the standard is that they must be secured, because one "may" fly off in an accident and hurt someone else. So we either have to put them in already overcrowded equipment compartments, or buy special brackets that cost $200 each. A new standard that just came out says that any helmet over 10 years old must be replaced. Doesn't matter if it even went to a real fire or not. It has to be trashed and you have to buy a new one. Helmets aren't cheap either. My first leather helmet had been in the fire department for probably 20 or more years and it worked just fine. And it didn't weigh a ton like the new ones do with all the crap they've added to them in the name of "safety". I know it's the same with other items, like safety harnesses and breathing apparatus bottles. Stupidity and no common sense is the rule now. More time and money is spent on trying to comply with all the regulations then it is on actual equipment and meaningful training.

[KnickKnack]

Ok then, if you own the land you can do what you want as long as no one else is infringed upon. To a certain degree I agree with you.

Hunting seasons are dictated by the govt. They tell you how and what you can do on your own property. At what point should your use be restricted for the common good? Should you be free to eliminate every animal from your property? Animals don't know property lines. The animals from your neighbor wonder onto your land... and you kill them too. Now your freedom has infringed upon your neighbor.

What if you don't own the land? Getting back to the thread, I don't know if the Schnabels own their claim or lease it. I know the Huffman's lost theirs to Dakota Fred because they missed a lease payment. The owner would have to dictate what policies are in place. Once that happens the system of control is now in place.

I agree that the govt is far too involved in daily life, and politicians establish laws because the average Joe is "too dumb" to think for themselves.

What you seek is impossible in society. The nature of living within a group of people is that certain "freedoms" are given up for the common good. You are supposed to have the liberty to make your own decisions within the social context.

Adams addressed the need for and the role of govt:

Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.

John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Men must be ready, they must pride themselves and be happy to sacrifice their private pleasures, passions and interests, nay, their private friendships and dearest connections, when they stand in competition with the rights of society.

John Adams, letter to Mercy Warren, April 16, 1776

I think people should be concerned not for "freedom" per se, but rather "liberty" to be safe from tyrannical govt, religious persecution, etc. The two things do not necessarily mean the same thing. We have the freedom to try and change the govt to fit society. Unfortunately the people "we" put in office in our recent history have a different direction than you or I have.

What Adams was talking about here was that Government should exist to protect the People, and the Government is the People. Therefore, in times of need, the People should come together for their common protection and decide their course of action. He also is addressing the fact that no one man, such as a King or Governor, should profit from the formation of the Government. I am sure that he would not agree that a man cannot do what he likes on his own property. Remember, they were defying a tyranical Goverment and forming a new one. They believed that when Government interferes with man's freedoms and liberties, then the People have the right to form a new Government, not just change the old one. There comes a point when "change" is not enough. And Adams is saying that that point is when a man, or group of men, profits from the existing Government at the expense of the other People. He was not advocating Socialism here. He was justifying the overthrowing of the old Government and the establishment of a new one, at the expence of all he owned, including his life, if necessary.

[cuppednlocked]

I'm not trying to say that we need big govt, only that there are responsibilities that the feds have taken upon themselves to mandate.

Take what Adams said any way you want, but the fact is the govt is there to support and protect the people. It does not matter if federal or state. Living within a society restricts "freedom" to a certain degree. It's a simple social concept. There is a common good that everyone agrees to (certain set of laws, etc that helps regulate the citizens).

Have things gotten out of hand? Yes, they have.

[timshufflin]

Ok then, if you own the land you can do what you want as long as no one else is infringed upon. To a certain degree I agree with you.

Hunting seasons are dictated by the govt. They tell you how and what you can do on your own property. At what point should your use be restricted for the common good? Should you be free to eliminate every animal from your property? Animals don't know property lines. The animals from your neighbor wonder onto your land... and you kill them too. Now your freedom has infringed upon your neighbor.

Didn't you just answer for me? This is exactly correct. If you kill all the game available in an area, you have infringed upon your neighbors game getting abiliity. This is a PERFECT example of a SINGLE item the the government has a role in. Add water and air usage to the mix and we are getting to about the ONLY things the government has a role in.



if you don't own the land? Getting back to the thread, I don't know if the Schnabels own their claim or lease it. I know the Huffman's lost theirs to Dakota Fred because they missed a lease payment. The owner would have to dictate what policies are in place. Once that happens the system of control is now in place.

If the owner of the land says you can control the land than there is no discussion. The owner of the land has used his freedom to make a profit by renting his land to let you make a profit. This pesky freedom thing really is a simple concept. Just try to think in terms of the nose on your face. If someone is not hurting your nose, it is probably not infringing upon you.


I agree that the govt is far too involved in daily life, and politicians establish laws because the average Joe is "too dumb" to think for themselves.

What you seek is impossible in society. The nature of living within a group of people is that certain "freedoms" are given up for the common good. You are supposed to have the liberty to make your own decisions within the social context.

Wrong, the average Joe is NOT so stupid as to not think for themselves. It is the Nanny's among us, who just can't resist thinking for the average Joe, that are STUPID. What I am seeking is NOT impossible and it did exist before. This situation existed, in its finest form, at the onset of this country's founding. It has gone down hill every single day since then because some of us think that it is okay to worry about what our neighbor is doing with their own property or body;
1. My neighbor is having sex for money oh my
2. My neighbor is drinking booze oh my
3. My neighbor is taking cocaine oh my
4. My neighbor is digging a giant hole oh my
5. My neighbor is hunting on Sunday oh my
6. My neighbor is walking naked in their home oh my
7. My neighbor is using profanity oh my
8. My neighbor has an old car parked on their property oh my
9. My neighbor owns a lot of guns oh my

It is the constant Nanny type, no good, sissy reflex, nerd in high school, can't take care of my own problems, mentality that has taken us from a more pure place to this terrible terrible place we are in now. LEAVE YOUR NEIGHBORS ALONE. If you don't like what your neighbor is doing, DON'T LOOK AT THEM. Unless you can smell them, feel them, hear them, or taste them, STAY OUT of your neighbors business!




Adams addressed the need for and the role of govt:

Government is instituted for the common good; for the protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness of the people; and not for profit, honor, or private interest of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, the people alone have an incontestable, unalienable, and indefeasible right to institute government; and to reform, alter, or totally change the same, when their protection, safety, prosperity, and happiness require it.

John Adams, Thoughts on Government, 1776

Men must be ready, they must pride themselves and be happy to sacrifice their private pleasures, passions and interests, nay, their private friendships and dearest connections, when they stand in competition with the rights of society.

John Adams, letter to Mercy Warren, April 16, 1776

I think people should be concerned not for "freedom" per se, but rather "liberty" to be safe from tyrannical govt, religious persecution, etc. The two things do not necessarily mean the same thing. We have the freedom to try and change the govt to fit society. Unfortunately the people "we" put in office in our recent history have a different direction than you or I have.

I have not one single departure from Adams said. The reason the people "we" put in office go down the road they have is because people CAN'T mind their own business! LEAVE YOUR neighbors alone. Is this not simple to do? Quit worrying about what religion, color, activities that don't affect you, who could get hurt, or anything about what your neighbor is doing. If your neighbor kills themselves, so what? If they kill someone else on their property, so what? The law will sort this out if someone's rights have been violated and it is not up to some worry wart sissy to incrementally strip us all of our personal freedoms in the name of safety.

If you worry about what your neighbor/local business/local church does, even though it hasn't hurt you, you are part of the problem.

Lastly, I completely disagree with the statement "people are inherently bad". I am a conservative and conservatives do not hold true to that liberal value. We hold it true that people are inherently GOOD. Leave people alone and they will act in their self interest which, more times than not, will benefit someone else. Russel Kirk covers this value very well in the book "The Conservative Mind".

[canes7]

There will never be a shortage of Nannys that are more than willing to judge and impose their will on you.

That how we got where we are today. Perfect example is prohibition.

[Punch The Clown]

WTH is with this time-out BS?

If I take longer than 2 sec. to post it times out. Does not make it easyt to be very verbose.

If you're on a roll use notepad and then copy and paste. Gets around some of those pesky forums with that 2 second rule crap. Free men don't need a 2 second rule. Just more infringement on my rights.

[canes7]

If you're on a roll use notepad and then copy and paste. Gets around some of those pesky forums with that 2 second rule crap. Free men don't need a 2 second rule. Just more infringement on my rights.

Yep. I've been on a roll lately, not that anyone would know (except my wife).

[cuppednlocked]

I'm too tired to reply in line but yes, I did answer for you regarding the game laws as you did for me. All I am trying to say is that there IS a place for some govt control and not this notion of absolute "freedom". It is Pandora's Box.

If more people worried about what was happening in their own world and less about what someone else was doing the world would be much simpler.

I'm not sure if I stated things the best way but I was trying to say the politicians believe the people are too stupid to make decisions and they need to establish laws because they don't think "we" are smart enough.

Regarding inherently good vs bad: I feel most people in the world, if put in the correct circumstance, would do wrong. That does not mean more control is necessary. Right vs wrong is a subjective measure based on personal beliefs. I'm not talking about people acting in their own best interest. We are survivors, it is in our nature to act in our own best interest.

Doing the wrong thing is easy... those types do not work hard at doing the right/good thing. It takes effort to stay the course. I really believe that the majority of Americans will take the easy way out (handouts, bailouts, etc) and are not willing to make the sacrifices and go without because they feel entitled for some reason. You call them the Nanny's, I call them the "not fair crowd". Invariably you will hear a soundbite where they mention something about "not being fair".

Those are the one's you need to look out for. The nation is on a dangerous path with more people wanting something for nothing.

I guess I am hung up on the fact you keep referring to these "laws" that will be in place that will sort out various situations. If govt only has a role in several small areas (game, air, and water rights) how can society be constructed to protect those infringed upon?

[timshufflin]

We have how many gun laws on the books folks? Anyone have a guess how many gun laws are on the books? I'll guess at least two hundred, just a guess. How many gun laws do we need? My answer is 0.

You aren't allowed to kill anyone unless it's self defense right? That means there's already a law covering all of gun control issues. Please, just don't kill anyone, I'm a genius.

On the Schnabels, how many mining regulations are on the books? I'll guess a thousand or so. How many do we need? I say 0. Don't kill your workers is already on the books isn't it? I'm a flipping genius aren't I?

Regulations are there to anticipate the possible injury of someone. You know, kind of like drunk driving laws but the difference is that driving on the road is a public area and not private propertly. Regulations are a tool of the WEAK, the COWARDLY, and the PATHETIC.

If you kill your workers, you will be sued and you could go to jail. There is no regulation needed to enforce the law of "thou shalt not kill". The law is already on the books. Until a freedom is infringed upon, there is nobody infringed upon. Regulations seek to anticipate and create jobs for the dumbest among us.

[KnickKnack]

The assumptions of the Left are that everyone needs to be protected from themselves and the actions of others. They assume that they can do this by writing a law or a regulation and that will immediately stop unsafe behavior. Their assumptions are ridiculous, at best. The only reasons for unelected, appointed agencies to write regulations is to exert their power on others, justify their existance and collect more money in the form of illegal fines to grow their agency.

[seaninmich]

we have absolutely no shortage of people. who gives a shit is a few hundred, hell - a few hundred THOUSAND - of the stupidest ones die?? Why do I give shit? stupid squirrels get run over crossing the road. stupid people get killed working around shitty mining equipment. These deaths are absolutely essential to maintaining a strong and healthy population.

[timshufflin]

we have absolutely no shortage of people. who gives a shit is a few hundred, hell - a few hundred THOUSAND - of the stupidest ones die?? Why do I give shit? stupid squirrels get run over crossing the road. stupid people get killed working around shitty mining equipment. These deaths are absolutely essential to maintaining a strong and healthy population.


...and it IS a free man's right to die because of his own stupidity. Some think being free means just the freedom to succeed, it does not. Being free also means being free to lose or die.

Just a few people who should have been allowed to be free but instead were "helped" and the monies to "help" them were stolen from the public trust. I list my opinion of these people's grasp of the situation and my reply;

- Mississippi River flood "victims"- We have had our family's home on this here flood plane for over a hundred years and survived 7 floods, we'll survive this one.
*Reply No kidding, I mean really? Your family is so stupid that you were flooded out 7 times and you kept rebuilding your home in the same stupid spot? I don't know who is more stupid, you or the government dumb @ss who keeps stealing my money to rebuild your imbred home. This all being said, I am all for this moron being free to build his home back in the same spot but WITHOUT the use of MY money.

- california earthquake "victims"- This is the first big quake since the last big quake 12 years ago and, God willing, we'll survive the next big quake too.
*Reply I'm no genius, well compared to a FEMA employee or the last 20 presidents I may be, but I'll guess there will be another earthquake in california. I'll guarantee it! If people want to bet on living in california they are free to do so but quit forcing ME to double down on their bets! These people get to live in some of the best weather in the world and God knows they brag about how awesome it is to live there because of it. Well news flash, I live in a winter wonderland and have to heat the heck out of my place in the winter and cool the heck out of it in the summer, perhaps I should send my heating bill to california. I however, live here because I don't like worrying about earthquakes and hurricanes and I also like to ice fish and snowmobile. Still though, the president will take away the only thing I have going for me, not having earthquakes, so that I can pay for the people of california to HAVE IT ALL!

- louisiana katrina "victims"- They told us it was coming but we didn't believe them and we lost it all. They also would not provide us with a free ride to get out, how dare "they".
*Reply This is, their own words, "the sportsman's paradise"! They love the weather and they love the ocean. I don't have that weather and I don't have the ocean. Guess what though? I get to pay for hurricane bills, yippeeeeee! If you can't stand the heat, get the heck out of the kitchen! If you live in FL, LA, or any of the surrounding states, you WILL have a hurricane and it will be coming soon. If you can't handle this FACT, please move to Michigan. We have an abundance of housing because all our people moved to your states for jobs.

-general motors and chrysler "victims"- We couldn't make a profit and we're about to belly up. The UAW is sucking the teat hard and there's just nothing left. Even though we can't afford to pay the UAW, what they force us to pay them, we keep paying them because that's what we do. Please help.
*Reply A Full size diesel pickup now costs as much as an entry level home in my area. Ford, and the other auto companies, has worked hard to CAPTURE market share and that means BEATING gm and chrysler. As a reward for a job well done we bail out the pathetic companies of gm and chrysler and hope that they catch Ford and the others so that we can bail them out too? The uaw union donates over 98% of it's campaign funds to the democratic party to keep perpetuating these bail outs. What the uaw could not get in the 1980's, a lifetime job guarantee from the big three, they have now accomplished politically through the dumbest among us, the US house and the executive branch, HOORAAH!


I don't even know what point I'm trying to make here, except to say my country is a FAR cry from the one envisioned by the founders. They wanted free men and instead they got a nation of sissy's.


Here's a book to better convey a philosophy that many of us hold dearly, we are free men not by our government but by our inalienable rights endowed by the creator. http://www.amazon.com/When-We-Are-Free/dp/0873590546