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View Full Version : Why I measure barrels from the receiver to the muzzle end.



timshufflin
01-23-2012, 03:08 PM
I've been told about a gentleman on the CMP board who did business with me and had issue with his barrel length. The gentleman contracted for a project with a specific barrel length and other features. I know of this gentleman and he is an outstanding guy who, it seems, just has a different understanding of what barrel length is than I do.

Why do I measure my barrels from the receiver to the muzzle? Because the only ATF person that matters in my life is the ATF person who inspects my shop. That's it in a nutshell. I can argue with an agent till I'm blue in the face but I have to do what the agent in my shop asks me to do, or else.

The ATF rules manual is FULL of laws that are interpreted differently by individual agents. If you don't believe this, just get to googling. I am not going to bring up other specific instances where MY ATF agent has a different understanding of what a rule means because, in some cases, my agent's understanding benefits ME.

The bottom line is that the customer on that thread was very kind, polite and understanding of my situation even though I think that my customers understanding of the definition of barrel length is the correct one.

To go a step further, look at my web site and you'll see the same Mini-G drawing that I've had up since the site has been in existance. It shows the barrel length as measured from the face of the receiver.

By the way Lapriester, the Mini-G does not kick like a mule. I have no idea where you get some of your material at. I tell my customers flatly that I cannot even tell the difference in recoil from a standard Garand to a Mini-G. Yes I had a reproduction T37 deform during testing, so what? Call Bill Ricca and ask him how many reproduction T37's deform during shooting STANDARD Garand's. You will find that the number is just about ALL of them. They are junk repro's and eventually, almost all turn inside out.

The concept that some people have is that anything that malfunctions on a Non-Standard Garand MUST be because it's a non-Standard Garand. This is just wrong! Look at the pages of the CMP forum, they are LITTERED with people who are having problems with STANDARD GARANDs. John Garand did a pretty good job but I can think of at least three things I can do better to improve his design. I'll bet the rest of you can too.

Good Grief.

KnickKnack
01-23-2012, 06:31 PM
Tim, I read that guys comments in the CMP forum and found nothing that you had to defend yourself for. Anyone who has dealt with the Government is well aware that rules and regulations are interpurted differently from employee to employee within the same Agency. No one working in a Government office, from the IRS on down to the local DMV, can possibly understand every single regulation that their agency makes. Most of those people have no idea how to even read or define the regulations either.

I would not have minded if this guy just started a discussion on measuring barrel length. There was really no reason for him to start out by bashing you and then trying to make up for it by praising you. He may be a perfectly nice guy, but I don't stay friends long with people that stab me in the back with one hand while handing me candy in the other.

timshufflin
01-23-2012, 07:06 PM
Kk, a customer is never wrong. All I'm trying to do is lay out that ATF officials aren't either. That is if you want to stay in business :)

Eli
01-23-2012, 07:15 PM
The ATF procedure for measuring barrel length is to measure from the closed bolt (or breech-face) to the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device. Permanent methods of attachment include full-fusion gas or electric steel-seam welding, high-temperature (1100°F) silver soldering, or blind pinning with the pin head welded over. Barrels are measured by inserting a dowel rod into the barrel until the rod stops against the bolt or breech-face. The rod is then marked at the furthermost end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device, withdrawn from the barrel, and measured. (http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5320-8/atf-p-5320-8-chapter-2.pdf)
Your agent is a fooking idiot!

Eli

mixmaster
01-23-2012, 08:40 PM
Tim
Hang in there Tim, I went through this with a carbine some LEO wanted to confiscate! I loved his threat of turning me in to my CO. Heck I was the only smith the base had and we were trying to get ready for VN.
Mix

mikebaker1129
01-23-2012, 09:42 PM
Wow , I have always measured mine from the receiver face to the muzzle.
I thought that most people accept that a standard garand barrel is 24" in length,I guess that we should be poking a rod in the barrel and measuring that like checking a muzzle loader to see if it is loaded. I wonder if the barrel manufacturers are aware of this ? Their listings on length would not be correct enough for some.

Punch The Clown
01-24-2012, 09:20 PM
In the case of the M1, all the barrel blueprints that are floating around there on the internet show all critical dimensions are measured from the face of the receiver, and not the face of the breech. It would be quite easy to mis-interpret barrel length after looking at the blueprints.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/bar2.jpg