A study pool for the WRA M1

[Prince Humperdink]

I thought this may be a good topic to pool info.WRA info is very confusing and in a sense contradictory,so I will pose a few questions and see where this goes.

1st Question is about Danish return observations.My WRA Danish return was on the chopping block and I bought it after parting out had started but I did get the original Barrel(still attached),bolt,Danish USGI SA stockset and a few other parts.This Rifle was,as I am told as Received from CMP.The bolt to this Rifle matches in color and wear but it is the very late step variety,this bolt came with this Rifle as returned...My Question,could it have been used in production for My Rifle's SN as it is 2373814,and generally thought to be too early,or would the Danes look for a WRA bolt as a replacement.Are there any other examples of a reported original Rifle in this range using a stepped bolt?

2nd,Does anyone have any "concrete" proof of when the early style follower assembly was used and switched to the later style?

3rd,Does anyone have an example of,or personal knowledge of the elusive "11"marked WRA follower assembly?When I was looking into this particular part I was unsuccessful in ever finding a photo of this creature.

Please feel free to ask any questions You may have about WRA parts or usage as well,afterall,This is a knowledge pool :)

[The Garand Guy]

if you will look in Scott Duff's "The M1 Garand Serial Numbers & Data Sheets", page 63, you will see Winchester #2408884, March 1944. It is mine, BRAND NEW IN COSMOLINE, & it has the early, unmarked follower. You can't get any better than that.

[Fogtripper]

if you will look in Scott Duff's "The M1 Garand Serial Numbers & Data Sheets", page 63, you will see Winchester #2408884, March 1944. It is mine, BRAND NEW IN COSMOLINE, & it has the early, unmarked follower. You can't get any better than that.


Pretty much this. About the only thing of use on this forum.

[Prince Humperdink]

Fogtripper,Please keep this thread civil.I started this to TRY and help People,and You are more than welcome to add any useful information that pertains to Winchester manufactured M1 Rifles.

[Fogtripper]

Quit advertising on the CMP and I'll back away Humperdinck. Know yor place fellows, know your place.

[timshufflin]

Fogtripper, that's 5 IP addresses in 25 minutes. You are good. Oh, welcome to the forum.

[Prince Humperdink]

Quit advertising on the CMP and I'll back away Humperdinck. Know yor place fellows, know your place.

Sir,I am not asking You to"back away" and I am not advertising anything on the CMP forum at the moment.I am only asking for a bit of Civility on this particular thread.

[dogboysdad]

Welcome Fogtripper!

[melloman]

"Does anyone have an example of,or personal knowledge of the elusive "11"marked WRA follower assembly?When I was looking into this particular part I was unsuccessful in ever finding a photo of this creature."

Larry Babcock's book has a photo of an 11 marked follower in Section 2.

[Punch The Clown]

I just looked at the pic of the WRA 11 follower in Babcock's book. It's an SA. The shape is wrong for Winchester.

[Prince Humperdink]

Stu,I remember what You had told Me during My search about never having found an actual example.

[melloman]

I just looked at the pic of the WRA 11 follower in Babcock's book. It's an SA. The shape is wrong for Winchester.

Well shut my mouth...wide open!


Section 6 page 16 - says that it is a Winchester (punch marks, yada yada). Just another error? The book seems to have some inconsistencies.

[Punch The Clown]

The non-seriphed 13 marked followers are the most common. If they were only used in Win-13's why would that be as the Win-13's were only a small percentage of WRA's total production. Opposite of what you would think. Another possibility is that the "13" style followers were made as a post-war service part? We would have to find out if Winchester had any replacement parts contracts.

[melloman]

I have never understood the whole WIN-13 educational contract thing anyway. What was the purpose of that run - to teach other manufacturers how to produce the Garand?

[The Garand Guy]

The #11 followers were SA. WRA ran behind in its production of followers, & SA gave them some.

[Fogtripper]

The #11 followers were SA. WRA ran behind in its production of followers, & SA gave them some.

----this----

[13Fox]

Howdy,

New guy here. Long time lurker, first time poster.

The only reference I can ever recall an 11 follower is Duff's book, 2481387. The reference to 11 followers being supplied by SA seems logical.

I have the same question on the stepped/no step bolt. Concensus points stepped as WIN 13, but I can't go as far to say this is true for sure. After speaking with a few collectors, some have felt that stepped started showing up as early as mid '43. Still, why is the -13 the consensus? I have looked high and low for something more concrete.

I have restored 2384988 as best I can following the books. I hand picked the rifle at the South Store and it has a "matching" stepped bolt. Am I certain it is original. No; in fact i doubt it, look where it came from. But it matches in finish and wear so it would be convienient if it were correct! Only thing this rifle needs is a WRA barrel, to my knowledge. While restoring this rifle, I used the early style follower.

Still looking for more info nightly.

[melloman]

Welcome 13Fox!

[The Garand Guy]

I have never understood the whole WIN-13 educational contract thing anyway. What was the purpose of that run - to teach other manufacturers how to produce the Garand?

Answer: Winchester undertook an "educational order" to make 500 M1's, in 1940 to see if they could do it effectively. This was considered a learning process.
After the expiration of their contract in Jan 1945, they were told by Ordnance officials to keep on producing M1's until told to stop. Winchester designated them "Win 13", and made them until final victory, transitioning the serial numbers from 25XXXXX TO 16XXXXX, duplicating SA serial numbers.

[timshufflin]

Answer: Winchester undertook an "educational order" to make 500 M1's, in 1940 to see if they could do it effectively. This was considered a learning process.
After the expiration of their contract in Jan 1945, they were told by Ordnance officials to keep on producing M1's until told to stop. Winchester designated them "Win 13", and made them until final victory, transitioning the serial numbers from 25XXXXX TO 16XXXXX, duplicating SA serial numbers.

You sir, are a veritable cornucopia of knowledge. Very neat information Tony.

[Orlando]

Howdy,

New guy here. Long time lurker, first time poster.

The only reference I can ever recall an 11 follower is Duff's book, 2481387. The reference to 11 followers being supplied by SA seems logical.

I have the same question on the stepped/no step bolt. Concensus points stepped as WIN 13, but I can't go as far to say this is true for sure. After speaking with a few collectors, some have felt that stepped started showing up as early as mid '43. Still, why is the -13 the consensus? I have looked high and low for something more concrete.

I have restored 2384988 as best I can following the books. I hand picked the rifle at the South Store and it has a "matching" stepped bolt. Am I certain it is original. No; in fact i doubt it, look where it came from. But it matches in finish and wear so it would be convienient if it were correct! Only thing this rifle needs is a WRA barrel, to my knowledge. While restoring this rifle, I used the early style follower.

Still looking for more info nightly.

Welcome to the forum

[Dave]

It has been "speculated" that the elusive 11 followers used by WRA would be sans serif, just like the 13 version. As far as I know, no one has ever seen one. I seem to recall a few collectors over the years talking about them, but I have never seen any myself, in person or pictures. I would be willing to bet though that there are some humped ones floating around.

[Dave]

Here's another WRA "anomaly", later stamped stock ferrules with an offset hole. This one sits on a nice GHD stock that has an SA SHM overstamp, also still retains a 2S buttplate. I know I've read about this but I can't recall when/where.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a305/M1Riflenut/garand%20pics/P1050826.jpg

[13Fox]

More pee for the pool...

I know that WRA buttplates and some earlier SA buttplates are similar and stamped 2S. Is it safe to assume that they did not all carry this 2S mark inside?

Inside the front ferrule with the "C" stamp for WRA, all I have seen are like a 1/2 circle, but recently received one from mongo that is 3/4 of a circle. Is this an anomoly or just the first time I've seen this?

Are there definitive ways of identifying minor parts by manufacturer, such as butt swivel, hammer plunger, plunger spring housing, etc.?

[Fogtripper]

I've received Winchester ferules with the 3/4 circle as well. If you would like a true experts opinion on this, contact Tony Pucci of Orion7. Pucci is the single best expert on the Garand including Duff. Tell Pucci that Fogtripper sent you and he'll treat you right.

[13Fox]

Have dealt with Tony! Great to deal with!

[Dave]

The C stamp inside a ferrule has fooled a lot of folks into thinking its a WRA part only. Just like folks think 2S buttplates are WRA only. And square plunger buttplates are WW2 only.