Something you dont see evryday

[Orlando]

Farm Fresh NOS Winchester gas cylinder in wrap. Manufactured 1945

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture562.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture563.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture564.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture558.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture560.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture559.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/Winchester%20Gas%20Cylinder/Picture561.jpg

[timshufflin]

Fake fake fake

[Orlando]

bite me......

[VitSports6]

Aged like fine wine or cheese.

[timshufflin]

bite me......

I'm sorry, did I say that was fake? Look at the giant milling marks, the almost complete look it has, yep, it's a winchester.

[jak]

Where do find stuff like this ????????

[Orlando]

Where do find stuff like this ????????

To be honest, I'm in it for the $$$$
Gotta pay bills, I am wheelin and dealin and finding some rather unsual parts

[melloman]

Does it have the DuLite finish?

[GarandGrabber]

To be honest, I'm in it for the $$$$
Gotta pay bills, I am wheelin and dealin and finding some rather unsual parts

Man You get all the good toys Orlando

[Orlando]

Does it have the DuLite finish?

I honestly dont know. Every DuLite finish I have ever seen was extremely worn. Not sure whta new DuLite would look like

[Prince Humperdink]

I honestly dont know. Every DuLite finish I have ever seen was extremely worn. Not sure whta new DuLite would look like

Looks like a semi gloss black/blue,kind of like enamel,but doesn't come off with chemicals.All the parts I had in the past looked like this in the past.

[Orlando]

Definatly not semi gloss finsh. It is black ,but just slightly grainy feel
In Duffs WWII book talks about WRA cylinders being iron plated then blued and also talks about another finish they used, page 147 it reads
" Winchester gas cylinders have been observed which appear to have been copper vapor plated and blackened"
Maybe this is what I have
I may put this on Gunbroker and see where it goes

[Dave]

Its one of those Korean fakes that creative folks were repacking to look authentic.

[Orlando]

Ouch :)......

[Dave]

Bill,
Now that I've looked at all the pics of this, one thing that really stands out that I've always looked at to determine WRA is the sight base.
I've never seen a genuine WRA cylinder with a sight base like that. They normally have a milled edge along the sight pad, both Wide base and narrow base. I do not know if its possible they made have omitted that in late production, but if they did I've never read about it. The Korean cylinders however are just like this one you posted. I have one as a spare for my shooters and it looks just like this one, also has a painted type of finish. Here is a photo of the comparisons that has been on many of the forums. I don't know who its from to give proper credit but it does a good job of showing the differences. I'm thinking you got a Korean unit that was repacked.
If you would like better closeups I can take some of mine. The Korean cylinder I have has coarse machining marks like many WRA's had. I got it at a local gunshow with a sight, lock and single slot screw, for $40. It was marked WRA which I knew it was'nt, but for the price I did'nt even say anything. I used the lock and screw and figured I'd keep the cylinder as a spare part. Nothing wrong with them, they function and gage fine, just not the "real deal".

348

[Orlando]

Ya, I'm really not sure about this one yet.
I have had several "big name" collectors, book writers, say its legit, others said they are not sure without seeing it in person. None of them said they thought it was fake, just couldnt tell without it being in hand
I saw the pics you posted on the Korean cylinders elsewhere, it is similar.
The ring and the bayo lug isnt the same as the pictured Korean Cylinder
Thing is not one of these collectors said anything about the possiblity of it being Korean. I'm not saying you arent right, just not sure .
I am continuing research until I this figured out

Please post some pics of yours

[Schriv]

Speaking of Korean gas cylinders, does anyone know of a source for them??? I need one for my latest Winspringchesterfield build. I've got a poat war SA on it right now and would love to go with a more visually correct look without breaking the bank.:p

[Orlando]

Sending Gas Cylinder off to be looked at by a WRA collector. Will post what I find out
Here are better pics after I cleaned it up
I posted this here in the begining to see if I could get any comments on it one way or the other. I had my suspicsions on it but didnt really know
I have seen late WRA with a smooth ring and have seen bayo lugs with a slight bevel. What throws me is the profile of the front sight base
The wrapper is legit, but jury is still out on the cylinder
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture524.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture514.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture518.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture515.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture516.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f197/Garandlover/WRA%20GC/Picture511.jpg

[Prince Humperdink]

Bill,
I just took out My WRA cylinder and the thing that is most problematic in My opinion besides the sight base milling is the cuts in front of the stacking swivel hole.They look square on yours with a thin flat,while My WRA has wide flat and the cut edges are rounded.Could be any number of reasons,but I think Yours has more in common with the Korean..I hope this is not the case.

[Orlando]

Anyone have the GCA 2011 Sring Journal? Supposeably there is a article with a WRA gas cylinder that looks just like the one in question

[Dave]

Anyone have the GCA 2011 Sring Journal? Supposeably there is a article with a WRA gas cylinder that looks just like the one in question

That article is about a Win13 that someone restored. The gas cylinder was purchsed from John Roberston in Canada. I've dealt with John numerous times and have bought a number of gas cylinders from him. They are listed as mint unissued still in the grease. I do not beleive they are unissed from the factory but are unissued since rebuild/refinish and repacking. All of the ones I got from him, includng WRA, were packed in thick heavy grease in a cheesecloth type wrapper. All of them had some sort of gray colored uneven finish on them.
The one pictured in the GCA article does look like yours but there is not a closeup of it, just a side shot from a slight distance but close enough to see no ledge on the sight base. Original WRA? Don't know. John bought that large lot of parts way before the Korean stuff showed up..................

[Orlando]

I sent John a e-mail with picks today. Will let you know what I find out

[KnickKnack]

And the M1 rifle lovers say that M1 carbines are difficult to figure out.... ;Confused;

[Orlando]

Reply back from Doug:
No, they were in a brown cardboard like wrapper. These are not anywhere near the type of wrapping my cylinders were in. They had what looked like the eagle of the DoD cartouche on the exteriors too. Doug

Take it for whatever, really doesnt help much



Bill Ricca commented on another forum about it. He has studied contract numbers and has info on them
His comments:
"I have seen a variety of round top (not Korean) gas cylinders with different wide and narrow forgings and front sight ridges. All the cylinders were surplus from years earlier, before the import of Korean look alikes.

The contract # 2365 was from 12/44 thru 6/45. All Winchester contracts were in the name of Olin Industries, East Alton, Ill. This contract was for Rifle Spare Parts.
I think his cylinder is legit. "


The search continues :)

[Orlando]

Gas Cylinder came back from inspection, I wont post the guys name as I dont have permission to , not sure if he would care or not but out of respect I wont
Here is a condensed version of the letter he wrote

"The Cylinder is correct of late vintage Winchester, nice blue finish. Winchester iron plated all of their cylinders then Dulited them." The packaging is also correct and original


I Would like to get another opinion but not sure who to send it to or who would be willing to inspect it

[Schriv]

"I Would like to get another opinion but not sure who to send it to or who would be willing to inspect it "

Well, in my opinion it is a fake. I think you should just send it to me and I'll put it on one of my rifles. It will be permanantly out of circulation that way and nobody will be fooled again. :p:p

[Orlando]

"I Would like to get another opinion but not sure who to send it to or who would be willing to inspect it "

Well, in my opinion it is a fake. I think you should just send it to me and I'll put it on one of my rifles. It will be permanantly out of circulation that way and nobody will be fooled again. :p:p


Reason I am spending so much time on this is I want to sell it and dont want to sell someone a fake.
It has been interesting though talking to different collectors about this. You can tell some are doing no more than reciting what they have read out of a book. Those guys I dont pay much attention to
May just put it on Gunbroker with what I know about it and see what happens

[Schriv]

I hear 'ya. No point dealing with all the hate and discontent from an unhappy buyer.
I've been following this thread closely. Lots of knowledge being passed my way second hand!!
It seems the Winchester style GC that came on my Blue Sky import 25 years ago may be something other than the Korean replacement that I've always thought it to be. It is a narrow sight base, with the milled marks and Win features that matches many of the pictures that I have seen in this thread.
Good luck on your quest. I'd hate to be a hardcore collector, struggling with all of the new production items that are hitting the market.

[Dave]

Gas Cylinder came back from inspection, I wont post the guys name as I dont have permission to , not sure if he would care or not but out of respect I wont
Here is a condensed version of the letter he wrote

"The Cylinder is correct of late vintage Winchester, nice blue finish. Winchester iron plated all of their cylinders then Dulited them." The packaging is also correct and original


I Would like to get another opinion but not sure who to send it to or who would be willing to inspect it

I think theres enough discussion on it already to ID it as WRA, problem is, that still does'nt change the fact that many will still question it. Interesting point added on one of the other threads, something I did'nt even notice in the pics, is that there is no grind marks on the top of the ring. Thats another thing seen on on WRA cylinders, even with the round top there is usually some evidence of grinding there. It would'nt surprise me at all if WRA subbed out the manufacture of them as spare parts. I've also always thought the late flatside oprods were not made by WRA either as the machining is to smooth when compared to everything else they did. I've had quite a few of those oprods over the years and I always thought they were probably an SA item sent over to cover a shortage, but then there is zero proof of that.

[Orlando]

Ricca stated after checking the numbers on the package that Winchester might not have been the maker. The contract was run by Olin Industries, the owner of Winchester. The contract might have been sub contracted to another company and Winchester might have had the responsibility for inspection