Real or Repro: Type 2 Lockbar

[polkaudioguy]

Bought this billed as complete and original type 2 sight

I am fairly confident of the authenticity of the knobs, but I have questions about the lock bar itself. The short edge is not radiused, and on the back the cuts are straight, not concentric with the threaded boss. What do you think? Real or reproduction?

http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t362/polkaudioguy/IMAG0213.jpg
http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t362/polkaudioguy/IMAG0214.jpg

[buzzy]

I am certain that your lock bar is original.
Although right now I can't find my reference information, so this is only an opinion.
There was a short time during the transition from type two rounded to the type three square cut lock bars that this variation appeared.
I have one on one of my rifles, I believe, early to mid '44.
If I'm mistaken, please correct me. I will continue to look for my documentation.

[Punch The Clown]

I have to say repro, but I have been wrong before.

[buzzy]

Just checked with a very prominent GCA member friend of mine. He confirmed my opinion and said that these lock bars are very, very scarce. They were manufactured during the transition and used by Springfield.
If you wish to discuss with him, send me a pm and I will give his e-mail address to you. You really do have a real deal.

[polkaudioguy]

I have one on one of my rifles, I believe, early to mid '44.

buzzy - can you confirm any of the measurements in the album? of course there will be some variation but it should be within a few thou http://s1056.photobucket.com/albums/t362/polkaudioguy/


He confirmed my opinion and said that these lock bars are very, very scarce.

Would you say that this was a good deal at $140?

[buzzy]

Don't want to tear mine apart to measure. Sorry!$vomit$

[polkaudioguy]

Haha, I dont blame you. Thanks for the information though!

[Dave]

Looks good to me. That is not a repro lockbar.

[Punch The Clown]

Sometimes it's good to be wrong!

[polkaudioguy]

I'm not so sure now, some discussion on the CMP forums seems to think differently, and I am starting to agree with them. The bar is about 0.030 in to 0.035 in too short, and one side of the bar is 0.015" longer than the other. The bar looks like it might be a type iii that was cut to look like a type 2. The flats are obviously made by shearing, and the ends were made by a different process. It does not make sense to use two different processes to cut the rough shape of the bar.

[buzzy]

Seems like someone went to a lot of trouble to produce a fake, when real type two lock bars were quite plentiful.
War time production on non critical parts didn't get thrown away if they were functional.

[Rick B]

These came from overseas with a huge lot of Garands back in the 80's. I always thought they were fake but wonder now??? Rick B

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5459/lockbarrepo.jpg

[Dave]

These came from overseas with a huge lot of Garands back in the 80's. I always thought they were fake but wonder now??? Rick B

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5459/lockbarrepo.jpg

Rick,
I had quite an argument awhile back on those lockbars. Quite a few folks insisted they were USGI, I said they are repro. I bought some myself years ago and they were sold to me as repros. I've never seen them anywhere else. None that I have seen show much use if any, usually always have a new or like new finish etc.

[Dave]

I'm not so sure now, some discussion on the CMP forums seems to think differently, and I am starting to agree with them. The bar is about 0.030 in to 0.035 in too short, and one side of the bar is 0.015" longer than the other. The bar looks like it might be a type iii that was cut to look like a type 2. The flats are obviously made by shearing, and the ends were made by a different process. It does not make sense to use two different processes to cut the rough shape of the bar.

I can't tell that based on the two pics you posted. There are lockbars with rounded ends that are straight inside, and I'm not talking about WRA's either. If this one is not the same size/shape on each end, or is a lot smaller than the knob, then maybe someone did file it down. Again, based on the two pics that's not something that can be seen.

[Rick B]

Mine are different from the one OP posted as his inside cut is flat and mine is curved like they had a perfect circle they trimmed the edges off to make them. Still wonder now. Rick B

[polkaudioguy]

after talking to the vendor on the phone today, I'm still not sure if mine is real or not. he said he pulled it off a rifle that came in, and that he has lots of others like it, but he is exchanging the bar with one that has the radiused ends and the curved cut on the back side

[Punch The Clown]

after talking to the vendor on the phone today, I'm still not sure if mine is real or not. he said he pulled it off a rifle that came in, and that he has lots of others like it, but he is exchanging the bar with one that has the radiused ends and the curved cut on the back side

That probably is your best bet as you know someone will always be crying humped when they see the straight cuts on the backside.

As far as the bars Dave and Rick are talking about-I own one of them and other than the nice condition it is indistinguishable from my other known correct lockbars so who knows?


Wait, I take it back. The ones in the pics have hard corners but the one I have is radiused.

[timshufflin]

Don't worry everyone, there will be an article coming out soon which will make ALL your lock bars REAL. There is no shortage of people, who have some fudged part or rifle, and want it to be real, no matter the length and comedy of the explanation needed to explain it.

[dogboysdad]

I am writing an article as we speak to support the gerbil scratch marks on the .308 Navy buttstocks. Look for it soon.

[Punch The Clown]

USGI gerbils or the "Greek" kind? Also, do you have the original PVC pipe?

[dogboysdad]

The Greeks used some sort of bakelite material for their gerbil tubes. These tubes are very collectible. USGI tubes were aluminum early on, but changed to PVC as aluminum did not perform well in saltwater environs and extrusion technology improved greatly in the 1950s.

[Rick B]

They later found that using Squids worked best as they were pre-lubed, hence the term Squids when referring to the Greek Navy. Rick B

[Punch The Clown]

I believe the Brits had a similar custom, hence the saying "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash".

[dogboysdad]

I believe the Brits had a similar custom, hence the saying "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash".

I thought my wife was the only one that said that!

[timshufflin]

Okay stallions, back on track or this thread is OVER!

[Rick B]

I'm sorry Dad, dogbosdad started it AGAIN, he's the bad kid! Am I still your favorite???????? :)


All kidding aside, I did forget for a minute which forum we were in, sorry. Rick B