Gentlemen this is why you don't buy 1911's made with MIM

[paid4c4]

More and more of the cheaper 1911 manufacturers are using Metal Injection Molding in their building process. This is in leu of the more expensive forged or casting metal pieces. MIM tends to fail especially under a little stress or age. Here is a picture of a MIM slide which failed under normal but extended use. Ouch, I'm glad it wasn't in my hand.
Bill538

[howie]

Not good...on a Springfield, even! Do you know how to tell, Bill, whether you've got an injected or forged slide? I'm no expert...have a firestorm and RIA 1911.

[timshufflin]

Not good...on a Springfield, even! Do you know how to tell, Bill, whether you've got an injected or forged slide? I'm no expert...have a firestorm and RIA 1911.

Yah, is there a tell or is it just known manufacturers?

[LEAD POISON]

DANG ! Is my ss springer V10 mim???

[Orlando]

Bill
I thought SAI 1911 frames and slides were steel forged ?
Any info on the 1911 pictured? The way the slide and grips are cracked I am wondering if there isnt more to the story than supposeably bad parts

[paid4c4]

Guys, sorry to have sounded a false alarm but I was going by what was originally posted. I see there has been a totally different story posted.
Here is the link so you can read for yourself.
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=375084
Bill

[ordmm]

Would think at this time that a whole bunch of firearms would be unaffordable if MIM parts were not used. I know everybody wants to see all those nice machine marks, but them days are long gone. Remember when the Glocks first hit the market....damn plastic guns. Times change, we all like traditional firearms, but without modern materials and manufacturing we probably would not see all the firearms we have to choose from today.

Greg

[mixmaster]

Very interesting post.Been building 45s and re loading for them for years and never seen that combo! I sure would like to get my hands on the gun and fired cases as well as loaded ammo to see if I could find the cause. There are a number of options ,case failure from worn out cases, no support from feed ramp area. wrong firing pin (9mm,38super) might account for the primer. even a flash hole to small for the type of primer used, defective primer.So many options. We will never know.
Bingo

[tljames]

I broke the frame of a Ruger "New Super Blackhawk" in 45 LC once. My reloads were within book specs. Yet I had no failures just broke the gun! When loading on my progressive press I have a "powder cop" which allows me to see if case is over / under loaded. Glad the guy wasn't hurt.

I love what one of his fellow forum members posted to him...........


07-15-2012, 06:27 PM
Whirlyspud
Member Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 519

I am glad you were not hurt, and I wish you best of luck with your flinch.

Mike $clapper$

That ain't no joke. Next round he fires down range will probably not be on target, as it's hard to shoot straight with both eyes closed and head turned! :o

[MajorD]

that crack has nothing to do with mim. even Sa which has a good rep can put out a defective slide every now and then. maybe an ammo related issue (overpressure,barrel obstruction etc.) with the right set of circumstances anything can break.

[MajorD]

looking more closely the cracked grip makes me think it was definitely an over pressure situation that would have cracked ANY 1911 regardless of maker

[timshufflin]

that crack has nothing to do with mim. even Sa which has a good rep can put out a defective slide every now and then. maybe an ammo related issue (overpressure,barrel obstruction etc.) with the right set of circumstances anything can break.


I know about as much about MIM as I do about women. My question would be, why doesn't the crack have anything to do with MIM?

[Orlando]

Slides and frame are forged

[Phil McGrath]

After reading the rest of the story I only have more questions?

[mark2112]

That my friend is not a MIM slide,they are forged and machined.ive been to the plant in brazil and seen it with my own eyes.the new remington r1 1911 slide is cast though and no matter how you slice it that blows.however... my $1500.00 TRP has mim parts in it and i have been slowly changing out those parts with ed brown barstock parts.

[Germann]

WOW! I have never heard of an SAI 1911 having that issue. Very unfortunate.

[GBMaryland]

Slides and frame are forged

Not true.

Springfield at one point was using cast slides / recievers. Caspian uses cast recievers / slides. As do anyone who has Caspian making the parts for them.

Cast parts have a RC of about 24-26 and are MUCH easier to machine into a final product.

Forged blanks have an RC of nearly 40, so that means you can go through cutters much faster. So many compaies will attempt to charge you what Smith and Wesson, Browning, Sig, and others do for what is actually a cast slide / reciever.

One of my buddies started making NM 1911s over the past 8 years, and he's gone through every aspect of business growth. Originally, he used cast recievers and slides. Then he realized that it was inferior, really inferior, and that the accurate longevity of the product wasn't going to be there. So he switched to forged blanks, and Brian Zins won 3 of his Camp Perry shoots with one of my buddies 1911s.

He has told me the names of a bunch of companies that sell very expensive 1911s, and use CAST parts. He's also told me that you can't go wrong with a Smith, Sig, or Browning produced 1911 if you want a normal one (non-NM uber Bulls Eye pistol).

Eventually, he started making 1911 frames and slides that have less that 2/10000ths difference from one end to the other using forged steel. Then, once he have everything properly fitted, he sends ALL of the steel parts out to Germany to have them Salt Bath Nitrate treated. So the parts end up being about an RC of 68...

The nice thing is that you are not replacing the bushing every 5000 rounds (which a match shooter can do in a few months). In fact, from last report, they've gotten at least 20,000 rounds of a bushing. (The barrels have to group under 1 inch at 50 yards not in a pistol, and he uses a ransom (sp?) rest to test fire every 1911 before it leaves the shop so they can check for wear later.)

[Orlando]

Springfield Amorys website says the 1911's are forged

[GBMaryland]

Springfield Amorys website says the 1911's are forged

There are NOW... they sold a TON of sand casted units at one point. Mid 1990s to early 2000s... then the firearm boom happened and it was easier to get someone to make them forged parts.

One year, not one shooter at Camp Perry on the Springfield Team used a Springfield 1911. That's was funny.

[awpk03s]

Not true.

Springfield at one point was using cast slides / recievers. Caspian uses cast recievers / slides. As do anyone who has Caspian making the parts for them.

Cast parts have a RC of about 24-26 and are MUCH easier to machine into a final product.

Forged blanks have an RC of nearly 40, so that means you can go through cutters much faster. So many compaies will attempt to charge you what Smith and Wesson, Browning, Sig, and others do for what is actually a cast slide / reciever.

One of my buddies started making NM 1911s over the past 8 years, and he's gone through every aspect of business growth. Originally, he used cast recievers and slides. Then he realized that it was inferior, really inferior, and that the accurate longevity of the product wasn't going to be there. So he switched to forged blanks, and Brian Zins won 3 of his Camp Perry shoots with one of my buddies 1911s.

He has told me the names of a bunch of companies that sell very expensive 1911s, and use CAST parts. He's also told me that you can't go wrong with a Smith, Sig, or Browning produced 1911 if you want a normal one (non-NM uber Bulls Eye pistol).

Eventually, he started making 1911 frames and slides that have less that 2/10000ths difference from one end to the other using forged steel. Then, once he have everything properly fitted, he sends ALL of the steel parts out to Germany to have them Salt Bath Nitrate treated. So the parts end up being about an RC of 68...

The nice thing is that you are not replacing the bushing every 5000 rounds (which a match shooter can do in a few months). In fact, from last report, they've gotten at least 20,000 rounds of a bushing. (The barrels have to group under 1 inch at 50 yards not in a pistol, and he uses a ransom (sp?) rest to test fire every 1911 before it leaves the shop so they can check for wear later.)

What's the name of this builder?