What do these Democrats think now?

[timshufflin]

It wasn't three years ago and three democrats from aurora CO wanted to repeal the death penalty. Wonder what these savages think now?


http://www.redstate.com/mikeparanzino/2012/07/20/fifty-colorado-lawmakers-voted-to-repeal-death-penalty-in-2009-would-have-protected-aurora-mass-murderer/

[andykev]

Don't know. However, Politically, the Presidential candidates did not address gun control in the wake if this tragedy.

Columbine High. Now this. How can you EVER enact a law which prevents this?

YOU CAN'T.

What I would have liked to see was 10 or more movie goers pull their CCW guns and shoot this ass hole down before he could shoot
71 people, killing 12.

[LEAD POISON]

If there would have been a few good citizens with CC in the theater,this may not have expanded to so many.
BUT,I'd bet there is a no conceiled carry on the door.

[andykev]

Correct. The Century Theater has a "NO GUNS" policy. To bad the shooter broke that policy. Guess we need more gun laws? Oh wait..mass murder IS against the law. What was I thinking????

[Roadkingtrax]

I love to hear people talk about all the guys that would have shot this guy...what a joke.

This Monday Morning Quarterback posturing would have gotten more people killed. The shooter had the advantage, back lit....he could see the entire theater from the reflection of the screen. A person in the crowd would have not. Sad to say, a wise person would have made as small a target as possible, and assessed the situation.

Too much John Wayne BS and Call-of-Duty wanna-bees would have gotten themselves executed along with the poor victims that had.

I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment, but that does not change that fact that my observations demonstrate stupidity and gun-ownership make good bed fellows too often.

[dpd3672]

I love to hear people talk about all the guys that would have shot this guy...what a joke.

This Monday Morning Quarterback posturing would have gotten more people killed. The shooter had the advantage, back lit....he could see the entire theater from the reflection of the screen. A person in the crowd would have not. Sad to say, a wise person would have made as small a target as possible, and assessed the situation.

Too much John Wayne BS and Call-of-Duty wanna-bees would have gotten themselves executed along with the poor victims that had.

I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment, but that does not change that fact that my observations demonstrate stupidity and gun-ownership make good bed fellows too often.

I agree with you to an extent, the shooter had a lot of advantages...a bulletproof vest, surprise, an advantageous position, etc. And let's not forget how successful (to a point) the Bank of America shooters were against the LAPD with many of the same advantages.

That being said, I'd rather go down fighting than running, and if it were up to me, I'd rather have the option of taking my chances shooting back than hoping I don't catch a random bullet in the back trying to squeeze my way out a narrow exit door with 250 other people.

Would a few armed patrons have made the difference?

Maybe, maybe not. However, I think it should be up to them to decide.

In this specific case, I think the shooter wasn't looking to die in a hail of bullets...he wore body armor and surrendered to the police without incident shortly after. I think he wanted fame, notariety, and to bask in the attention of this shooting; dying in the process wasn't part of his plan.

An armed patron of the theater might not have had a good chance of killing or incapacitating him, but if my assumption is correct, a grazing wound to the arm or leg might have been enough to make him give up...we'll never know. Hell, even drawing his fire for a few seconds might have allowed a couple dozen more people to run out of the theater without being shot.

I agree that Monday Morning Quarterbacking is generally full of bad assumptions, unrealistic ideas, and false bravado, but the basic human right to defend yourself or (in the worst case scenario) to dictate the terms of your own death, shouldn't be taken from us.

I'm probably one of the few people here that have been involved, somewhat, in an incident like this, a mass murder at a bank here in Michigan about 15-20 years ago. Had one person been able to fight back, the whole thing could have played out much differently.

[timshufflin]

This shooting still pales in comparison to the famous Bath Bombing of the early 1900's.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

[dpd3672]

First I've heard about that one...quite a story, and I'd imagine it was really sensational considering the time period.

[Roadkingtrax]

I agree with you to an extent, the shooter had a lot of advantages...a bulletproof vest, surprise, an advantageous position, etc. And let's not forget how successful (to a point) the Bank of America shooters were against the LAPD with many of the same advantages.

That being said, I'd rather go down fighting than running, and if it were up to me, I'd rather have the option of taking my chances shooting back than hoping I don't catch a random bullet in the back trying to squeeze my way out a narrow exit door with 250 other people.

Would a few armed patrons have made the difference?

Maybe, maybe not. However, I think it should be up to them to decide.

In this specific case, I think the shooter wasn't looking to die in a hail of bullets...he wore body armor and surrendered to the police without incident shortly after. I think he wanted fame, notariety, and to bask in the attention of this shooting; dying in the process wasn't part of his plan.

An armed patron of the theater might not have had a good chance of killing or incapacitating him, but if my assumption is correct, a grazing wound to the arm or leg might have been enough to make him give up...we'll never know. Hell, even drawing his fire for a few seconds might have allowed a couple dozen more people to run out of the theater without being shot.

I agree that Monday Morning Quarterbacking is generally full of bad assumptions, unrealistic ideas, and false bravado, but the basic human right to defend yourself or (in the worst case scenario) to dictate the terms of your own death, shouldn't be taken from us.

I'm probably one of the few people here that have been involved, somewhat, in an incident like this, a mass murder at a bank here in Michigan about 15-20 years ago. Had one person been able to fight back, the whole thing could have played out much differently.


DPD, I want to thank you for your response...

It made me think of one more statement that needs to be said, from my perspective. You, and others with your experience in either armed conflict (Iraq, WW2, etc.) or police duty shootings are in my mind the truly qualified people to speak of what could have gone different given the situation and detailed analysis.

I worry for the irresponsible CCW holder that reacts poorly,...that may have more far reaching consequences when trying to stifle the Bloomberg/Brady crowd. If that was my family in the audience and a Rambo with a 1911 killed people "trying" to help the situation...I would hold them to near the same level as the initiator of the violent act.

I see the posts across the internet about how guys would have blasted him away....sounding like some washed up high school football jock in their 50's. This doesn't send the responsible message in which us gun loving, gun owning and gun respecting crowd would like to present in the face of the ignorant anti-gun lobbyists. I think a simple statement of, "I wish more could have been done to help in the moment" is enough. Perhaps others cannot articulate their feelings in a different manner.

[timshufflin]

DPD, I want to thank you for your response...

It made me think of one more statement that needs to be said, from my perspective. You, and others with your experience in either armed conflict (Iraq, WW2, etc.) or police duty shootings are in my mind the truly qualified people to speak of what could have gone different given the situation and detailed analysis.

I worry for the irresponsible CCW holder that reacts poorly,...that may have more far reaching consequences when trying to stifle the Bloomberg/Brady crowd. If that was my family in the audience and a Rambo with a 1911 killed people "trying" to help the situation...I would hold them to near the same level as the initiator of the violent act.

I see the posts across the internet about how guys would have blasted him away....sounding like some washed up high school football jock in their 50's. This doesn't send the responsible message in which us gun loving, gun owning and gun respecting crowd would like to present in the face of the ignorant anti-gun lobbyists. I think a simple statement of, "I wish more could have been done to help in the moment" is enough. Perhaps others cannot articulate their feelings in a different manner.


I will say this, I may have blasted away or I may have done nothing, I don't know. I mean, I'm no hero because my check comes from free enterprise. If I had chosen to blast away, it may have gone good and it may have ended up with my sorry azz dying, who knows. Nothing is for certain but whomever would have fought back WOULD have been outgunned.

[dpd3672]

DPD, I want to thank you for your response...

It made me think of one more statement that needs to be said, from my perspective. You, and others with your experience in either armed conflict (Iraq, WW2, etc.) or police duty shootings are in my mind the truly qualified people to speak of what could have gone different given the situation and detailed analysis.

I worry for the irresponsible CCW holder that reacts poorly,...that may have more far reaching consequences when trying to stifle the Bloomberg/Brady crowd. If that was my family in the audience and a Rambo with a 1911 killed people "trying" to help the situation...I would hold them to near the same level as the initiator of the violent act.

I see the posts across the internet about how guys would have blasted him away....sounding like some washed up high school football jock in their 50's. This doesn't send the responsible message in which us gun loving, gun owning and gun respecting crowd would like to present in the face of the ignorant anti-gun lobbyists. I think a simple statement of, "I wish more could have been done to help in the moment" is enough. Perhaps others cannot articulate their feelings in a different manner.

I agree with everything you say.

Lots of internet tough guys seem to be drawn to this hobby (guns, shooting, etc), and in my opinion, they're the worst people in a crisis situation, because they're absolutely unpredictable, and often make a situation worse. Personally, I'm no badass, nor do I profess to be, and I'm not saying I, or anyone else, would have necessarily made this situation any better.

That being said, I'm still a firm believer in giving people the chance to protect themselves. If it goes badly, so be it...it's still likely to thwart the bad guy's original intent somewhat. In this case, the shooter clearly hoped to kill as many people as possible. If one of the victims could have interrupted his attack...even slowed him down, the odds are strong that the outcome would still be better than it was.

In the end, we'll all guilty of speculating, Monday Morning Quarterbacking, and trying to think of the solution that would have prevented this from happening, or stopped it before it got too far underway. But all it is is speculation and wishful thinking.

[seaninmich]

You, and others with your experience in either armed conflict (Iraq, WW2, etc.) or police duty shootings are in my mind the truly qualified people to speak of what could have gone different given the situation and detailed analysis.

I worry for the irresponsible CCW holder that reacts poorly,...that may have more far reaching consequences when trying to stifle the Bloomberg/Brady crowd. If that was my family in the audience and a Rambo with a 1911 killed people "trying" to help the situation...I would hold them to near the same level as the initiator of the violent act.

I see the posts across the internet about how guys would have blasted him away....sounding like some washed up high school football jock in their 50's. This doesn't send the responsible message in which us gun loving, gun owning and gun respecting crowd would like to present in the face of the ignorant anti-gun lobbyists. I think a simple statement of, "I wish more could have been done to help in the moment" is enough. Perhaps others cannot articulate their feelings in a different manner.


So anyone that lacked the skills and intelligence to get a job pumping gas and decided to join the military instead is automatically more qualified to react to this agressor than any CCW holder?? unfucking believable.

[timshufflin]

So anyone that lacked the skills and intelligence to get a job pumping gas and decided to join the military instead is automatically more qualified to react to this agressor than any CCW holder?? unfucking believable.

I don't know if roadkingtrax is saying that or not, are you roady? There were at least 4 military personal in the theater and, so far, it's thought they did nothing to stop this democrat from slaughtering folks. If there were a cop in the theater, who had a gun, you risk them shooting the wrong guy or, probably more typical, shooting someone with a twizzler in their hand.

I just don't see any data that shows how police or current military react better in these instances. I have seen data to the contrary though.

[howie]

I've never been involved in a shootout, never pointed a gun at anyone, and even though I work for the government, I do have an opinion on this issue that wasn't drilled into my head by a union bigwig..... The reason I carry a gun is because if something bad ever happens I at least want a fighting chance. I can't say what I would have done at the theatre because #1, I wasn't there, and #2, anything I could say to the contrary would be pure speculation and posturing on my part. Could an armed citizen possibly have changed the outcome of that particular situation? Quite possible. Could that same individual have made it worse? Sure. What we know for sure is the theatre was another one of those "gun-free" zones, and nobody challenged the bad guy, so the situation was totally in his control until he decided to surrender. Therein lies the problem....NOBODY tried to alter this guy's course of action, and until that happens, he's got free reign over everyone there.

[toolman]

I love to hear people talk about all the guys that would have shot this guy...what a joke.

This Monday Morning Quarterback posturing would have gotten more people killed. The shooter had the advantage, back lit....he could see the entire theater from the reflection of the screen. A person in the crowd would have not. Sad to say, a wise person would have made as small a target as possible, and assessed the situation.

Too much John Wayne BS and Call-of-Duty wanna-bees would have gotten themselves executed along with the poor victims that had.

I'm a staunch supporter of the 2nd amendment, but that does not change that fact that my observations demonstrate stupidity and gun-ownership make good bed fellows too often.

Let me guess you are a cop???? toolman

[cuppednlocked]

Ponder this:

What if an armed citizen was in the theater and got some rounds off at the bad guy (at least slowing him down). Let's also say concealed carry was not legal in the building (here in NC that's anywhere that charges admission among other places).

Does the citizen get lumped in as an accomplice?

Does the armed citizen get prosecuted?

Does the armed citizen's action cause a ripple effect that builds or breaks down the ability to carry concealed?

[howie]

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6?

[andykev]

Well, mostly I carry a .38 Chief Special. It's 5 shots of .38 S&W. Lame. Mostly, it is to keep me feeling safe. It is a nice gun, small, light. Nothing like a .45 or my Sig .40.

The .38 would NOT have done a damn thing against a rifleman with body armor and a ballistic helmet, and a PLAN.

Now, yea. I would have loved to have been at the Federal Building and shot Timothy with my M1...before he blew up the building. Yea, I would have loved to be in the theater, with my M1, and emptied all 8 rounds into this Ass Hole before he shot victim #1. Perhaps I could have intercepted him in the parking lot? And Colombine High.....yep..could have been there for morning coffee with my Carbine and fired 15 .30 rounds into the two students who terrorized the Nation, and killed innocents...

I can only say this: Our Society has trained us to be "Sheeple". Don't fight. Don't take risk. Give them the wallet..you can replace it.

Well...in 30 years of my profession...Criminals are cowards..they prey on innocents.

IF everyone could and WOULD fight back..these turds would NOT find it so easy to shoot, rob, murder, rape..their victims. And you as a gun toter..need to
be aware..if you pull the trigger..you will, yes WILL have to justify it..to the endless parade of lawyers and the courts....

You will hear "He was turning his life around"..and "you didn't have to KILL him".."you could have called 911"...

Tried by 12 or carried by 6? I hate that. You have to know when to use deadly force. The gang banger homeboys will
know where to fine you, and your family, and seek revenge because you shot their homie.

Yes..I fantasize stopping this evil...but WHO KNEW??? How do you EVER prevent it? You can't.

That said...I still believe YOU have, or should have, the right to shoot back.

It's sad you would ever have to. And I hope NO ONE ELSE has to. BUT that is not gonna happen.

In America, the price of Freedom is to live with possibilities that this can happen. It shouldn't.