Cartouche question

[rlelvis]

I need some opinions on this stock, specifically the cartouche. What’s the first thing you think? 9394959697

[rlelvis]

9998

two more

[timshufflin]

Okay, I don't think much of the DAS but tell me what you're thinking. Don't hold me to task now, I don't have the image engrained in my mind like Borecky would so I'd have to refer back to a known good one I have to make sure.

[Punch The Clown]

The stars look way too arched-they should be straighter. The box is also too tall. The stars should be closer to the top of the box. But I'm probably wrong-usually am.

[timshufflin]

How can you tell how tall the box is? It's gosh darn golly gee worn off at the top.

[jak]

It may just my eyes, but it looks like the eagle is facing to the right. I thought it's suppose to be facing left

[Punch The Clown]

How can you tell how tall the box is? It's gee wally willikers worn off at the top.

Alright, the stars should be in close to a straight line which would bring them closer to the top of the box. Technicalities.

[rlelvis]

The head is correct it’s just so lightly struck that the grain makes it look funny.

I purchased this as a Post War SA stock and my first thought when I opened it was SA Replacement Stock, with later humped DAS. I only have one known good SA post war stock to compare it to and the DAS is definitely different. That said it does look closer to a known good HRA .5 DAS that is lightly struck (the HRA DAS seems to have more arch to the stars but this much). I have looked at allot of pictures and have seen some that look very similar.

I do not have enough experience to begin to call somebody out on this one so I figured I would ask and see what others thought.

Otherwise, it is a clean stock with good lockup. Just overpriced, if it is in fact a humped replacement.

[Prince Humperdink]

here is one that a Guy just received fron CMP,and posted on CMP forum.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/b32dominator/630f5015.jpg

[Punch The Clown]

Ryan, you made me take these out of the safe as I'm confused myself. The top is a 1/2" DAS, and the bottom is a 3/8" DAS. Both are from the CMP. I bought them personally. The 3/8 looks diff than the 1/2 for sure? Stu

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/halfdas_640x480.jpg

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/38das_640x480.jpg

[Prince Humperdink]

definitely different.I had seen both before,but never thought about it until this thread.Would have no idea why They would change,but there is A LOT that I don't know.

[rlelvis]

here is one that a Guy just received fron CMP,and posted on CMP forum.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/b32dominator/630f5015.jpg

Now there is the problem. When I put the pics side by side they look darn close. But side by side with my SA CG is a different story and it matches allot of others I have seen. I guess I just need to match up some HG's and call it good. It is a clean stock either way.

[rlelvis]

And here is a pic of it side by side with the CG stock and then the SA CG SA (pic 3) and a HRA (pic 2) DAS. Both CMP purchases. Does not look like the pic you posted from the CMP?

Still confussed but it's all good.

[Punch The Clown]

definitely different.I had seen both before,but never thought about it until this thread.Would have no idea why They would change,but there is A LOT that I don't know.

What I don't know would fill volumes. I think we need Borecky on this one.

[rlelvis]

So I found a pic of two CG's I received last year. Not the best pic but now that I look at them they even look different.

[Rick B]

That DAS is real but is not sure if it is the late SA production from what I can tell. It does look as if the head is close enough to the wings to be a IHC stamp who had the arched stars throughout productions. It could also be just worn from age making it look this way. There has been a weird one showing up all of the sudden on HRA's but I know that the real stamps for a few DAS's is out there and I am very suspicious on how all of the sudden HRA's are showing arched stars in the last year. Rick B

[timshufflin]

That DAS is real but is not sure if it is the late SA production from what I can tell. It does look as if the head is close enough to the wings to be a IHC stamp who had the arched stars throughout productions. It could also be just worn from age making it look this way. There has been a weird one showing up all of the sudden on HRA's but I know that the real stamps for a few DAS's is out there and I am very suspicious on how all of the sudden HRA's are showing arched stars in the last year. Rick B


Rick, as I inferred and was shut down by Stu :(, I believe this DAS is real too but are you saying that it's an HRA? What am I missing guys? The back porch on the thing is SA in my mind, even though I can't see a very good back porch photo. The "P" looks SA too. Someone explain this to me, what maker is this stock supposed to be?

[rlelvis]

That DAS is real but is not sure if it is the late SA production from what I can tell. It does look as if the head is close enough to the wings to be a IHC stamp who had the arched stars throughout productions. It could also be just worn from age making it look this way. There has been a weird one showing up all of the sudden on HRA's but I know that the real stamps for a few DAS's is out there and I am very suspicious on how all of the sudden HRA's are showing arched stars in the last year. Rick B

Rick,
Thanks for the info. Never considered it being an IHC stamp. I have seen some pics on the CMP and on other sites showing a similar DAS on SA stock but pics are deceiving.

[timshufflin]

An IHC stamp? I can't keep up, I'm so lost I can't even begin to explain it. Are we saying that this is an IHC stamp on an SA stock now? Someone splain it all to me.

[rlelvis]

Rick, as I inferred and was shut down by Stu :(, I believe this DAS is real too but are you saying that it's an HRA? What am I missing guys? The back porch on the thing is SA in my mind, even though I can't see a very good back porch photo. The "P" looks SA too. Someone explain this to me, what maker is this stock supposed to be?

Tim, It is a SA stock for sure, no question. My only concern is that it was a 'NOS' replacement SA stock that had been stamped after the fact because the DAS did not look like right to my very untrained eye.

That and the fact that it has no wear (including the butt plate and sling points), almost no indication of ever being installed, no color (looks like new walnut) and/but has three separate bullet tip impressions from seating in the clip on the stock.

[rlelvis]

An IHC stamp? I can't keep up, I'm so lost I can't even begin to explain it. Are we saying that this is an IHC stamp on an SA stock now? Someone splain it all to me.


Yep, me too. I think I am going to call it good, install it and shoot my $10 donations to the winner of the BT Krag with it.

[timshufflin]

I'm starting to feel what Rick is saying. I call shananigans, looks like someone with a real DAS stamped it. This marking is a 3/8ths DAS hybrid with a 1/2. The eagle does look IHC. I declare shananigans. Bring the broom.

Now, on WHOM shall I declare this on? I declare it on whomever got you that stock, so long as it wasn't me of course.

[Dave]

I'm going on record saying its legit SA. I've compared it to my HRA's, IHC's and SA's and I'm going with SA. I have a number of post war SA stocks with two different star patterns, two of them papered NM rifles and this stamping appears to match one of them.
Rick B, was'nt this discussed awhile back on one of the other websites? I can't remember which one or how long ago, or maybe it was in one of the GCA journals? I do seem to recall discussion on two different star patterns on SA. Never copied it as I'm not a huge post war rifle guy despite how many I have :)

[rlelvis]

I'm starting to feel what Rick is saying. I call shananigans, looks like someone with a real DAS stamped it. This marking is a 3/8ths DAS hybrid with a 1/2. The eagle does look IHC. I declare shananigans. Bring the broom.

Now, on WHOM shall I declare this on? I declare it on whomever got you that stock, so long as it wasn't me of course.

It is still in question, after looking at pics and research and the forum I will not call it. Pictures can be deceiving. It does apper slightly different up close then the pics. There are some on the CMP that were posted but did not have a picture the P proof so I am not 100% on the maker (but some sure looked SA). Confused…

As far as calling out somebody I would not do it unless I was SURE and in the case of a cartouche and my knowledge on them it is not going to happen; unless it had a picture of Mickey Mouse on it.

[timshufflin]

I'm going on record saying its legit SA. I've compared it to my HRA's, IHC's and SA's and I'm going with SA. I have a number of post war SA stocks with two different star patterns, two of them papered NM rifles and this stamping appears to match one of them.
Rick B, was'nt this discussed awhile back on one of the other websites? I can't remember which one or how long ago, or maybe it was in one of the GCA journals? I do seem to recall discussion on two different star patterns on SA. Never copied it as I'm not a huge post war rifle guy despite how many I have :)


Are you saying that I get to put my broom away? Thank God!

[rlelvis]

here is one that a Guy just received fron CMP,and posted on CMP forum.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j398/b32dominator/630f5015.jpg

This pic is very close and when I put the stock under bright light I call it legit but this is only one picture...

Looks SA to me???:confused::confused::confused:

[Rick B]

Yes I am calling it legit as a DAS. The key is that late SA and IHC both used a 1/2 inch arched stars. SA started using it sometime after 5.6 million. They are different when you see a nice picture of them hence the reason I put some doubt to it all as I can not get a clear enough image from it to call out which it is. I would not want to call it one or the other or even a rebuild with it being so hard to see. The HRA thing was just some talk as to now seeing them coming out with Arch stars or folks are claiming this. It very well may be SA stamped from left over HRA wood but other than that I get confused how these started showing up lately,, the HRA arched star DAS's. Make more sense? Rick B

Edited for photo.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3945/hradascomparejpg.jpg

[timshufflin]

Rick, that SA late photo looks dead on to me. Particularly the head on the eagle.

[rlelvis]

Thanks Rick. Your picture and a flashlight = Good enough for me. Legit since everything else checks out.

Now for a beer and Deadliest Catch.

[Rick B]

Peak at these close up Rick B

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4995/comparerlelvis.jpg

[Rick B]

Anybody????????

[Punch The Clown]

I'm confused.

[Dave]

Anybody????????

I'm on my way out the door for work so can't study them to long but I see the IHC marked one has the broken box, something I've only noticed on SA ?? If time permits I'll post pics of mine this week.

[rlelvis]

Anybody????????

What am I missing???

[timshufflin]

Peak at these close up Rick B

http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/4995/comparerlelvis.jpg



I'm still sticking with late SA. I don't understand why a broken box matters because, looking at these four markings of two markings, some have different broken points anyways.

[Rick B]

The late SA center star is allot higher and the IHC stars are by far closer to a match. The wings are more pronounced and bulged on the late SA and you should see that even more on a older worn one like Rlelvis. I going for rebuilt later stamp or something else and now maybe you see why I wasn't going to put a definite on this one. When I get home later I can do smaller comparisons to show you. Rick B

[rlelvis]

I see it now that you pinted it out, otherwise I would have never noticed.