Question for the match shooters

[cuppednlocked]

Recently I find that my rapid prone shots are drifting high and right (sub-six hold).

The high I can explain because I tend to hold a little tighter to the black than during slow. What boggles me is the right. I'm not talking about a string of shots, but rather a group. I don't have a picture but the shots are 9's or 8's after the first two shots.

Slow prone is in the mid 90's or better and rapid goes low 90's with my Garand. The problem only exists when I shoot the Garand. I am shooting 98+/- with my 513T in slow and rapid prone (I know different rifle/caliber/sights/trigger/etc) with the CMP Remington SV .22 ammo.

It has been suggested that I am using too much finger on the trigger and pulling right when I break the shot but I was very careful this last match and the group was still right. I did find myself a little closer to the heel of the receiver as I continued shooting.

Could I be canting the rifle by leaning into it (rotating the rifle clockwise)? In my mind that could explain a shift in POI. If the barrel is farther "left" would that also push the POI left?

Whatever the problem it is consistent based on group size. I know the simple solution is to come left 2 and down 1 and not change anything but it's bugging me that this is happening.

The good news is I am slowly getting past my "yips" offhand.

[canes7]

I have two ideas for you:

1. Your letting the palm of your firing hand slip towards the end of the trigger pull.

2. Follow thru with the trigger. Squeeze and hold. Do not release the trigger too quickly.

[cwcdl79]

my uninformed very limited experience, your right elbow is moving, you're muscling the gun back down into the correct sight picture.

[cuppednlocked]

I will check those things. Although I believe to be following through with my trigger pull and am repositioning my body when pushed off NPOA (obviously not perfect when my cheek weld is getting closer to the heel). Now that I think about it the problem did not happen when I shot my M1 Carbine last but did in the next relay when I shot my Garand.

Now, help me understand the rifle cant concept. Here is how I interpret events:

If I am holding sub-six with the rifle vertical my POI is center of the black. I am hitting ~4" high from POA. If the rifle is canted clockwise (looking down the barrel) the POI shifts right. I will always be ~4" high from POA no matter if the rifle is vertical or tilted. POI will shift to the right because the sights are tilted that way. In other words, if I were able to shoot laying on my right side with the same sub six hold, from my perspective, I would still be center black.

My best work with MS Paint:

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc5/cuppednlocked/POI_zpsbd61c8bc.png


Left sight picture is with rifle vertical with POI as the red star. Right sight picture has rifle canted POI as the red star with what I think will happen. The red star should be lower in the black than it is. The blue star is POI because the barrel is farther left.

Which would happen?

In my mind POI is fixed to a point above the front sight regardless of how the rifle is tilted as long as the eye, rear sight, front sight, and target are lined up for the shooter. You compensate for the cant/elevation/windage by adjusting your sights so POA = POI.

[canes7]

Rifle cant isn't going to have much effect at 200 unless you are tilting that thing over a million degrees. There was a whole thread on this over at usrifleteams.com that I read a few years ago. IIRC the AMU peeps basically said it won't even push you out a whole scoring ring.

You could always just not cant the rifle.

[cuppednlocked]

I'm not trying to cant it, but think I could be leaning into the sling, gripping too tightly with my trigger hand and tilting it.

Is my understanding about the sights correct? I was told my POI would be left if the rifle was canted clockwise.

[canes7]

Is my understanding about the sights correct?

Not sure...

[cuppednlocked]

Just in case you weren't sure... I got the humor in the "just not cant it" but I hope my sarcasm also showed in my response!!!

[jak]

Just in case it's not your technique, have you checked your garand for issues ? You said it happens after the first two shots. Maybe something is touching the barrel after it heats up. Did anything happen to the rifle, like getting dropped, falling over, or something else ?????

[cuppednlocked]

No bumps, knocks, or bruises.

[Roadkingtrax]

I have a problem of heeling the stock with my trigger hand (right). I've gotten to the point where I barely grip the stock in position...only lay my fingertips in line down the arch or the grip.

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg243/abnjaildog/StringingAssist.jpg

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc6/hammonje/RifleTargetProblems.jpg

[Roadkingtrax]

Just in case it's not your technique, have you checked your garand for issues ? You said it happens after the first two shots. Maybe something is touching the barrel after it heats up. Did anything happen to the rifle, like getting dropped, falling over, or something else ?????

There was a recent discussion out of Gus Fisher, and I believe Orlando may have commented as well. NM shooters of the M1's knew that the first and second round would land at a different POI out of a clip...and only the first clip.

[cuppednlocked]

Thats an interesting diagram. From that it appears to be more the muscling.

I will be shooting another match next weekend.