Anyone care to identify this Garand?

[Wojtek]

I bought this Garand the other day and I am trying to figure out exactly what it is, as I have not seen anything like it before. One gunsmith friend said it looks like a T44E2 and several other people have said that it is a home-brewed conversion. Regardless of what it is, I like it and it I am going to keep it.

Here are the relevant specs.

-Chambered in .308/7.62
-Uses M14 magazines
-The magazine release is a drop-in unit that fits in the receiver without further modifications to the receiver.
-Receiver is not a cut-and-weld/hybrid.
-Receiver is a 6 digit Springfield receiver from April 1941.
-The end of the gas tube says ".100"

What do you (Tim Shufflin and others) think about this gun? Any idea who might have made it? I can't find anything like it and I have looked far and wide.

Photos below are of the Garand in question in comparison to a stock Garand.



http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/th_20130730_123929-1_zps866782ea.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130730_123929-1_zps866782ea.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/th_20130730_123935_zps760047c8.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130730_123935_zps760047c8.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/th_20130730_123854_zps3cf7ccd1.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130730_123854_zps3cf7ccd1.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/th_20130730_123907_zps5f1cb283.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130730_123907_zps5f1cb283.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/th_20130730_211411_zps46e5c458.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130730_211411_zps46e5c458.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/th_20130730_211406_zpsebe31e0b.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130730_211406_zpsebe31e0b.jpg.html)

[Prince Humperdink]

I wouldn't know who made it,but I think it would benefit greatly with a dummy clip latch.

[Orlando]

Its a civilian mag feed build, not sure whtat hey were trying to accomplish with the front end.

[seaninmich]

Its a civilian mag feed build, not sure whtat hey were trying to accomplish with the front end.


you think they were trying to accomplish something? Looks more like someone got the front end and said "oh Sh!%. Now what do I do??"

the whole front half of that thing is truly awful - looks unfinished.

[seaninmich]

I've never seen one like it and, in all likelihood, it is the only one like this. The design is poor, at best. Definitely a civilian cut up, most likely a "garage gunsmith". I would be shocked if you were able to find out who built it. In fact, I doubt the guy that did it had the proper manufacturing license so even if you could find him, he'd be smart to deny it.

Does it run?

[seaninmich]

Sorry, just saw the part that says "I just bought this...".

If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay? Were you able to run a few mags through it before you bought it?

[Punch The Clown]

Sean, you should be in charge of the welcoming committee.

[seaninmich]

Sean, you should be in charge of the welcoming committee.

He asked a straight forward, honest question. I gave him a straight forward honest answer. Why the hate?

[timshufflin]

I find the thing very very interesting. I'd love to see side photo's of the trigger lug and follower area. Is the oprod straight or bent? Very cool piece, in my opinion.

[jbkf1003]

Very interesting, the guy who made that front end must be a lee-enfield enthusiast.

[Wojtek]

Sorry it took me so long to come back and respond. I am currently up in Oregon just having fun at the moment chasing steelhead and salmon and apparently failing at it. Luckily the crappie at the local stocked park pond are biting on salmon eggs because I was about to throw in the towel, haha. About to go to the store to get Kwikfish lures, sardines and roe. I'll be damned if I don't exhaust all options!


I've never seen one like it and, in all likelihood, it is the only one like this. The design is poor, at best. Definitely a civilian cut up, most likely a "garage gunsmith". I would be shocked if you were able to find out who built it. In fact, I doubt the guy that did it had the proper manufacturing license so even if you could find him, he'd be smart to deny it.

Does it run?

This build doesn't strike me as a crappy build put together by someone that didn't know what he was doing. Different and unorthodox but not crappy. I could be partial to it since I bought it and I like it but while pulling it apart I didn't say to myself "self, this looks like shat"

I do not know if it runs as I have not fired it yet. The idea I have is to load up some light cartridges and test fire until it cycles reliably. Not pictured is a hole on the right side of the gas block that I believe is for bleeding off excessive gas (could be wrong but that is my initial impression)

This gun was acquired via an intermediary from a lady liquidating her husband's personal collection so if he is the one that did it, I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to talk to him short of having a seance.



Sorry, just saw the part that says "I just bought this...".

If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay? Were you able to run a few mags through it before you bought it?

415.


I find the thing very very interesting. I'd love to see side photo's of the trigger lug and follower area. Is the oprod straight or bent? Very cool piece, in my opinion.

I will be back in California in a few weeks. I will post more detailed photos for you at that time.

Good to know you at least like it. :)

[Punch The Clown]

Wow, Wojtek withstood a broadside by Sean on his first post. Bravo.

[seaninmich]

Wow, Wojtek withstood a broadside by Sean on his first post. Bravo.

it wasn't a broadside! I just answered a question. you are are so sensitive

[Punch The Clown]

it wasn't a broadside! I just answered a question. you are are so sensitive

I am not sensitive. Oh, by the way, the bridges of madison county is on tonight.

[Wojtek]

Alrighty guys, I am back behind enemy lines. I took a photo of the receiver, other side of the gas block, the hole I mentioned earlier and and the op rod for you all to inspect. I forgot to ask about the whole oprod being bent or not but I can take more photos in a little while if needed.


Receiver

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130902_190430_zpsf8c1c48e.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130902_190430_zpsf8c1c48e.jpg.html)

Gas port hole on the underside of the block. Don't know what this is for but I am assuming it is for bleeding off extra gas.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130902_190453_zps39f45c98.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130902_190453_zps39f45c98.jpg.html)

Other side of the gas block

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130902_190500_zpse751cacc.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130902_190500_zpse751cacc.jpg.html)

Op rod

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130902_190542_zpsff9d5c34.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130902_190542_zpsff9d5c34.jpg.html)

[timshufflin]

That is so cool! BM style (slightly) front mag catch and straight oprod going into what almost looks like an M15 style blowback system. I'm pretty sure it's just a normal piston on the end of the oprod though.

[Wojtek]

I googled around on the M15 blowback system but I keep getting airsoft stuff. Is there a link on the subject I can look at?

[timshufflin]

I googled around on the M15 blowback system but I keep getting airsoft stuff. Is there a link on the subject I can look at?

Edit

I think you quoted me saying M15, I meant M14. I used the term "blowback" incorrectly so strike that entirely, brain fart. As to the the difference I was trying to get to, I was wondering if this was a direct system like the M14 where the only real difference is that the M14 uses no piston, technically, and the gas is used to drive the oprod directly. The Garand uses a piston which then drives the oprod.

Bottom line, I'm just wondering if this oprod has a piston or not.

[Punch The Clown]

I think the M14 system is indirect-seperate piston/op-rod set up. The gas hole is too far forward to have a an M14 piston but another type? I'm curious of the hole visible in the bottom of the gas block is there as a gas vent like the M14 system. We need pics with the op rod removed.

[Punch The Clown]

Also, the lower band looks like it may be untized. It also looks like the front of it has been closed off like Tim's.

[ttwn0324]

Oh, my. Is that a one off constant volume, tappet gas block? Were did they machine the spacer block, I see in Pic 4, to fit in the receiver? Take more pics. That is a very unique riffle. And, your right. I doesn't look like it was a shoddy attempt.

[Wojtek]

I will get photos of the disassembled gas system components this week.

Lots of good info in this thread, I dig it.

[ordmm]

Also, the lower band looks like it may be untized. It also looks like the front of it has been closed off like Tim's.


Was thinking the same thing. Was thinking of trying (when time permits and my experimental lab staff has time) getting the casting guru to try a "unitized" lower band/gas cylinder. Thnking why not incorporate a gas adj valve. Why not? The crazy thing is it's all irrelevant on improving (or screwing up) the Garand rifle but just wonder about it's application to custom build M1's. Another thing is....how short can the op spring be? That's another one I"ll have to pass on the the mad builder. Some of this stuff, like the one in this thread, is really neat. Kinda opens up a whole new collecting category. I really meant it. Lot's of variations of home built modified Garands.

[Wojtek]

Was thinking the same thing. Was thinking of trying (when time permits and my experimental lab staff has time) getting the casting guru to try a "unitized" lower band/gas cylinder. Thnking why not incorporate a gas adj valve. Why not? The crazy thing is it's all irrelevant on improving (or screwing up) the Garand rifle but just wonder about it's application to custom build M1's. Another thing is....how short can the op spring be? That's another one I"ll have to pass on the the mad builder. Some of this stuff, like the one in this thread, is really neat. Kinda opens up a whole new collecting category. I really meant it. Lot's of variations of home built modified Garands.

Glad someone likes it!

I am hoping this rifle is going to be a good one to shoot. I haven't tried it out yet because I wanted to know more about it (this is a fairly decent divergence from the Garand IMHO), not to mention that I haven't gotten any ammo for it just yet.

[Punch The Clown]

Greg, I would love to see a M1 op rod mated to an M14 one, and using an M14 gas system.

[ordmm]

Stu,,,,I go crazy when I read all he stuff about the M14 rifle. Yeah, it's one cool looking rifle. And to be sure the last of the "wood and steel rifles". But Gheezuz...take a look at what Beretta did with the Garand modifications. Think about how much time and money could have been saved by using the Beretta BM59 over the M14. So, when you consider all the drama about who makes the best M14 make believe receiver, and "how come I have problems with my make believe" m14 receiver, and "how come "I can't headspace my M`14 receiver" and "the heel stamp on brand x looks better than the heel stamp on brand z"...what a bunch of boring crapola. Garand receivers, tried and true, any of the bad ones surely have been culled out after 60 years. Stu,,,,,has your BM clone ever failed? Yeah, my point exactly. Modified Garands are cool. Same as injected '55 Chevy's and 48 Anglias were cool. That's all I can say about it. Be cool.

[ordmm]

Since I mentioned '55 Chevys were cool...I know...it's off topic.

http://pinterest.com/pin/68398488063627842/

And, yes. August 1970 is correct. Gheez, that was along time ago.

[ttwn0324]

Greg, I would love to see a M1 op rod mated to an M14 one, and using an M14 gas system.

I second that.

[Punch The Clown]

Greg, that's why I want to mate a Garand receiver to M14 parts. I would end up with an M14 with a real receiver. I would prefer to get my hands on one of the old re-milled M14 receivers but I hear they are pretty scarce.

[Wojtek]

Alright, got some more photos.

Here are photos of the op rod.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130904_220944_zps2686c275.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130904_220944_zps2686c275.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130904_220937_zps962f8e0a.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130904_220937_zps962f8e0a.jpg.html)

Now another cool part. It turns out that the gas port isn't out the bottom but out the FRONT. I took a photo of the gas piston housing (hope that is right) looking out towards the end of the barrel to show the light at the end of the tunnel. It seems that my rifle does self-regulate after all.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130904_221211_zps9136f06f.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130904_221211_zps9136f06f.jpg.html)
http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b488/lebellous/20130904_221113_zps3710951e.jpg (http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/lebellous/media/20130904_221113_zps3710951e.jpg.html)

[timshufflin]

Your gas port is still out the bottom, the .100 marking is for the vent.

[Wojtek]

Interesting.

So I'm guessing the op rod is a cut down and modified M1 Garand op rod, correct?

[timshufflin]

^^
Yes and no, it appears another rod was welded to the original rod.

[Wojtek]

That's what I was figuring as I googled around just now.

Well, gotta say this has been one of my cooler purchases. Now I just have to go shoot it!

[timshufflin]

Make sure you let us know how it goes, very cool piece... in my opinion.

[Wojtek]

Make sure you let us know how it goes, very cool piece... in my opinion.

Absolutely!

[ordmm]

Greg, that's why I want to mate a Garand receiver to M14 parts. I would end up with an M14 with a real receiver. I would prefer to get my hands on one of the old re-milled M14 receivers but I hear they are pretty scarce.

It's been talked about quite recently. Kind of a "universal" type receiver thing. Maybe the IAI/
CAI receivers could be worth a look. Hybrid op rod is no problem as new production handles are in the pipeline and it would be easy to source tube to weld to Garand op rod handle. Garand bolts are still really quite cheap. As long as there are enough M1 receivers around it should not be too big a deal. Barrel threads are the same I believe. Now....let's see....maybe a "kit" could done?

[timshufflin]

It's been talked about quite recently. Kind of a "universal" type receiver thing. Maybe the IAI/
CAI receivers could be worth a look. Hybrid op rod is no problem as new production handles are in the pipeline and it would be easy to source tube to weld to Garand op rod handle. Garand bolts are still really quite cheap. As long as there are enough M1 receivers around it should not be too big a deal. Barrel threads are the same I believe. Now....let's see....maybe a "kit" could done?

I really truly believe that a good receiver for BM59 and M14 conversions is the drill rifles from the CMP. I'm going to talk to my insurance company about this and see if they can offer me some leniency and not require liability releases. I own 3 drill rifle receivers for my own rifles and they act just perfectly. I am not convinced that there is any danger in using these receivers. This all said, this comment I am making in NO way is to be considered as my saying that drill rifle/demilled/or any receiver with any sort of weld is safe.

[jbkf1003]

On those CMP Drill Rifles, whats usable on them? Barrel is shot, bolt is shot, but is the oprod, gas cylinder, Trigger Group, ect salvageable (assuming those parts in-spec)?

I have a H&R Correct I don't shoot much, a 308 shooter, and a 30-06 Mini-G. Thinking about building a new 30-06 shooter. Is buying one of these and putting a new barrel / bolt in it worth it? I know I could buy a service grade, but I like projects. :)

Justin

[timshufflin]

On those CMP Drill Rifles, whats usable on them? Barrel is shot, bolt is shot, but is the oprod, gas cylinder, Trigger Group, ect salvageable (assuming those parts in-spec)?

I have a H&R Correct I don't shoot much, a 308 shooter, and a 30-06 Mini-G. Thinking about building a new 30-06 shooter. Is buying one of these and putting a new barrel / bolt in it worth it? I know I could buy a service grade, but I like projects. :)

Justin

If you are willing to fend for yourself, assume responsibility for your actions, most of the time you can use the receiver. Barrels, gas cylinders, gas locks, gas screws, junk.