What don't you believe about M1 Collecting?!

[timshufflin]

Okay, you've been collecting the M1 Garand Rifle for a spell now. You've heard this, that, and the other thing about all manners of M1 collecting. You've heard that the parkerizing is #$W#W$ and @#$%$%, you've heard that #$ bolt is correct for all Garands in this date range. You may have heard something that just doesn't add up to you in any way. THAT is what this thread is for.

What don't you buy into about the M1 Garand?

I'd like to take these items, when this thread runs its course, and tackle one at a time until we get through the list. For now, bring it!$auto$

[canes7]

I don't believe that the experts know what the hell they are talking about.

[paid4c4]

Actually there are two myths I don't buy; First only "original" M1 Garands will go up in price and parkerizing them lessens the value. Second parts rifles aren't collectable and will never be worth what original are worth. Regarding #1-I've always thought good looking rifles sell first and bring the same or close to the same price as originals. #2-Corrent me if I wrong but if a rifle has been through an armory it's pretty much a parts gun.
Bill

[redheep]

I agree with Bill.

I don't agree that guns put together by people in their garage with parts that are all stamped the same are worth any more money than the rifle I purchased that was assembled by an armorer during a rebuild.

I also don't believe that every service grade rifle that the CMP sells has the opposite manufacturer's bolt when they get them.

[BRUTUS]

1) It's only original once.
1A) Correct is still more desireable than a mish mosh of parts. (Just because a FORD seat fits in your Chevy, do you really want to mix and match?/Jap aircleaner on your Harley?)
2) To each their own.....

[jjones]

I have worked on military weapons for more than 20 years now. I don't think that the guys fixing garands would be any different than we are. Parts are parts. After the first trip to the small arms shop, the originality is gone.

I don't believe that the Danish or Greek guns are not collectible. Both are a big part of garand history.

[timshufflin]

I don't believe that bolts were lapped to each rifle.

[timshufflin]

I don't believe that Winchester machining standards are nearly as good as SA or HRA. Heck, probably not as good as IHC. I've often thought of a new ad for my company, "machining to Winchester standards".

[timshufflin]

I don't believe that there is one single Garand, past rifle number 1000, that anyone really knows what "correct" is.

[checkmate19]

I do not believe I have a problem collecting M1s!

[redheep]

The ford in a chevy debate doesn't work.

If ford built exactly the same engine that chevy did for exactly the same car, then you could say that, because it would be the same part from a different manufacturer.

Apples and oranges.

[MH53GUNNER]

I don't believe that manufactures did not swap parts. What makes us think that during the war the the only end result was to put a functioning rifle in the hands of a soilder.
I don't believe that there was only one person stamping rifles. Who really cared about the positioning of the acceptance cartouche, what it looked like etc... What tell me that this one person worked 365 days a year and 24 hours a day. Come on!
I don't believe that any rifle is actually correct in the sense that it is original from the factory. Someone had to open the packaging to check serial numbers etc. The military is ever so anal about paperwork and serial numbers of weapons.
I don't belive that there is a true expert on the Garand. What is fact today often proves incorrect tomorrow.
I don't believe that the manufactures did everything to see that all the parts used matched up with the manufacture date of the rifle.

OH one more comment. I am sure this thread will create a debate.

[LEAD POISON]

I believe If it's mine it's correct.If it's someone else's it's not correct. RIGHT?

I believe for every drop of rain that falls a flower grows. RIGHT?

[MH53GUNNER]

I agree with Bill.

I don't agree that guns put together by people in their garage with parts that are all stamped the same are worth any more money than the rifle I purchased that was assembled by an armorer during a rebuild.

I also don't believe that every service grade rifle that the CMP sells has the opposite manufacturer's bolt when they get them.


The CMP does switch out parts to include stocks, bolts and op rods all day long. First hand expierence.

[BRUTUS]

The ford in a chevy debate doesn't work.

If ford built exactly the same engine that chevy did for exactly the same car, then you could say that, because it would be the same part from a different manufacturer.

Apples and oranges.


I already think you're a punk, so your pissant opinion doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.......

[paid4c4]

I already think you're a punk, so your pissant opinion doesn't mean a hill of beans to me.......

Jeff, The mods will write on your report card that you don't work and play well with the other children. The thoughts of a Jap air cleaner on my Harley is sickening, I've already been to the garage to make sure it was OK.
Bill

[jak]

I believe M/W and T/E numbers are overrated. Just because a barrel has good numbers doesn't mean it will shoot better than another barrel with higher numbers.

[dogboysdad]

I believe that most of the nice WWII cartouched stocks are in the basements of the CMP armorers.

[Blockhead]

I believe that most of the nice WWII cartouched stocks are in the basements of the CMP armorers.

So true. I've talked to a few old-timers about how all the returns from South America suddenly lost all their Winchester rear sights, etc when still in CMP storage. I've also heard stories about CMP armorers being canned for buying the collector-grade garands for cheap and then selling them at the local gunshot for a mint. I will mention no names.

[Punch The Clown]

I don't believe that these weapons were ever greased until later on in the war as they are supplied with oilers, so all this greasing business is overrated.

I don't believe that a new op-rod spring from Orion7 will magically fix what ails your M1.

[mixmaster]

I believe my name says it all! If you have an "original" you bought the story and not the gun. I rebuilt too many firearms for the military to believe an original is out there on the market. If the part fit and was current it went on we were not worried about "collector rifles" only wanted them to function properly. What you got was a mish mash of parts we had in stock and oh yeah if we did not have the new improved part an ONS part was used.There are "correct" rifles for sale but I know guys like us did it.Just ask any one of us. Sorry Tim if this is not what you were looking for on this thread.
Mixmaster

[M1orNone]

I still can't believe it's not butter! ;)

[Prince Humperdink]

I don't believe that anything is"set in stone"when it comes to M1's anymore.

[llurpirate]

I believe that it is in the eye of the beholder. All of mine are correct and each one is in never issused condition. Don't care what the other guy says "IT'S MINE!!!" Ha!!

[Orlando]

1) It's only original once.
1A) Correct is still more desireable than a mish mosh of parts. (Just because a FORD seat fits in your Chevy, do you really want to mix and match?/Jap aircleaner on your Harley?)
2) To each their own.....

Yup:).........

[timshufflin]

Stu has a photo of some oprod that is thought to be "correct" by some at the GCA. Correct me if I'm wrong stu but that was in an article two years ago? Then some guy posted about that exact oprod on the CMP forum.

Anyways, all the stuff I just wrote does not matter except that I don't believe that this oprod is "correct" either. Stu, if you have a photo, show it. The oprod appears to be a modified rod, like any other, except that some in the GCA are now saying that the "mod" is where the end mill went to far and cut the notch. Here's my rub, WHO in the blazes would use such a small end mill in the first place to make such a cut on the rest of the rod handle? I know my government is a bunch of numbnuts but we're talking about everyday Joes here who want the biggest baddest tool available to get the job done fast.

[herrmann]

I do not believe that headspace matters on an M1. Any bolt/any rifle, as long as the bolt closes on a round.

[LEAD POISON]

I think no matter what,They are all correct,UNLESS you find some Chinese symbles in it.ha ha

[axemurderer]

I believe that all Garands should be sent to Tim and turned into Mini-Gs. End this argument once and for all.


Mike

[M1orNone]

Anyways, all the stuff I just wrote does not matter except that I don't believe that this oprod is "correct" either. Stu, if you have a photo, show it. The oprod appears to be a modified rod, like any other, except that some in the GCA are now saying that the "mod" is where the end mill went to far and cut the notch. Here's my rub, WHO in the blazes would use such a small end mill in the first place to make such a cut on the rest of the rod handle?


I hope I don't step on any toes with this, but...

I would like to see Stu's pic too. I can remember seeing a similar op rod, when I was looking for one to finish up my M1. Knowing nothing at the time, at all, about them, it definitely didn't look like it was done accidentally. I should've taken a pic of it when I had the chance.

I know nothing of how they ran the milling machines that made the op rods. Having said that, wouldn't there have been a stop set up to make sure the end mill didn't go past that point? I'm assuming the op rod in question was made at a point before anyone knew about the relief cuts, or at least before modifying them was common practice.

[Prince Humperdink]

Stu has a photo of some oprod that is thought to be "correct" by some at the GCA. Correct me if I'm wrong stu but that was in an article two years ago? Then some guy posted about that exact oprod on the CMP forum.

Anyways, all the stuff I just wrote does not matter except that I don't believe that this oprod is "correct" either. Stu, if you have a photo, show it. The oprod appears to be a modified rod, like any other, except that some in the GCA are now saying that the "mod" is where the end mill went to far and cut the notch. Here's my rub, WHO in the blazes would use such a small end mill in the first place to make such a cut on the rest of the rod handle? I know my government is a bunch of numbnuts but we're talking about everyday Joes here who want the biggest baddest tool available to get the job done fast.

Is that from the article about the 1943 WRA Receiver built with 1945 WRA parts?

[captain_bob_badfish]

I don't believe that just because a barrel is stamped "Blue Sky" that it's inferior. Out of all of my Garands my Arlington/Blue Sky is my favorite.

[timshufflin]

Is that from the article about the 1943 WRA Receiver built with 1945 WRA parts?

I have no idea, Stu would know though. I don't do GCA.

[JWinILL]

There are no experts just varying degrees of consensus.TE,ME,and headspace are greatly overemphasized by a few to confuse the vast majority who don't know and could care less but it makes you sound important.Before the CMP had grading standards using TE and ME how many people had even thought about it or even seen it used in a description of a firearm for sale.

[MH53GUNNER]

One additional comment comes to my simple mind.

Those experts touting their knowledge relating to the M1 Carbine know less than the self touting Garand experts. If any rifle had varriants it was the little M1. So many of these people slam anyone who disagrees with them and their beliefs.

Every book on the subject is wrong, wrong and more wrong. While we have some information from the manufatures and the military we have so much more to learn.

[Punch The Clown]

Is that from the article about the 1943 WRA Receiver built with 1945 WRA parts?

Yeah, that's the one. Caused quite a stir. I'm afraid to post the pics as a lot of people got their panties twisted over that one.

[Punch The Clown]

I don't believe that just because a barrel is stamped "Blue Sky" that it's inferior. Out of all of my Garands my Arlington/Blue Sky is my favorite.

The most original and correct rifles I've see had import stamps. 2 gunshops near me had several M1's, each one nicer than the next, and all with import stamps. I have no idea where these guys got them but they sold fast.

[Cal30M1]

I don't believe you better try to take my M1 away from me.

[jak]

Is that from the article about the 1943 WRA Receiver built with 1945 WRA parts?

Since I don't belong to the GCA and don't get their magazine, can someone explain to me what the whole story is about.

[timshufflin]

Since I don't belong to the GCA and don't get their magazine, can someone explain to me what the whole story is about.


Yah Stu, would you?

[Punch The Clown]

You're killing me Tim. Here are some excerpts from the GCA article. I believe there was a declaration of shenanigans.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/DSCF1154_640x480.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/DSCF1155_640x480.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/DSCF1156_640x480.jpg

[timshufflin]

You're killing me Tim. Here are some excerpts from the GCA article. I believe there was a declaration of shenanigans.

http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/DSCF1154_640x480.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/DSCF1155_640x480.jpg


http://i369.photobucket.com/albums/oo140/Stumedic/DSCF1156_640x480.jpg



bout time.

[Oh Mr. Wilson]

I don't believe,

That part of the op rod was cut with a round mill during production. There's a sharp step and you can see where the finish is worn where this area has contacted the front of the receiver during recoil.

[melloman]

I don't believe that just because a barrel is stamped "Blue Sky" that it's inferior. Out of all of my Garands my Arlington/Blue Sky is my favorite.

I have a "Blue Sky" Carbine that I swear is the best shooting carbine that I own.

[Punch The Clown]

People that worry about lockup on a rare collectors stock. People that worry about tip dimensions on a rare uncut op-rod. People that worry about gauging a rare gas cylinder. People that worry about throat erosion on a rare barrel.