Obama Executive Order to End the CMP

[KnickKnack]

http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/29/obamas-new-executive-order-will-kill-the-110-year-old-civilian-marksmanship-program/

We knew this was coming. Until we have a new President that fully supports the Constitution, nothing will stop this.

[Orlando]

CMP doesnt Import anything. Should not have any affect on them

[timshufflin]

The word "import" means to bring goods into a country from abroad to sell. The CMP has brought goods into this country for sale from Greece has it not? I seem to remember Orest telling us years ago how the CMP had to pay for all the freight to get those rifles here. Now if the military were to bring rifles back it would not be importing because the rifles are given to the CMP.

Still, hell with the CMP, I couldn't care any less about a non profit. My concern is for the poor SOB's who have made lives out of importing old war rifles and pistols for sale. Imagine the impact this will have on their families, their employees, the folks who are lending them money. This isn't right, it isn't legal, it is a terrible thing done by a tyrant, ignored by rinos, and forced on us. My federal government couldn't possibly make me any more sick, thugs, criminals and sub humans the entire lot.

[Orlando]

CMP "may" have paid the freight but I would bet if they did they reimbursed the Army
The way I understand CMP only gets what the Army turns over to them.
Now when it comes to ammo etc, I understand CMP did buy this direct from Greece.
Again I may have it all wrong but thats the way I understand it.
Yes I agree Tim it is a bunch of ****

[timshufflin]

That the CMP is allowed to stay in business while the private for profits lose their business models is pure cronyism!

[ttwn0324]

That article is wrong. The rifles they get are lend-lease and repatriated through the army.

[ordmm]

Given how the "great one" operates, barrry can end whatever he wants to, at any time. Nothing is sacred with the group running things. Best thing we all can do is order our max limit of rifles before the whole thing is shut down. PLEASE REMEMBER.......the same guy in charge of the CMP was the same guy running "captian crunch". Am sure he has not problem about advising how the system works.

[KnickKnack]

That article is wrong. The rifles they get are lend-lease and repatriated through the army.

The White House announced on Thursday that it intends to “ban almost all re-imports of military surplus firearms to private entities” through executive order, which would effectively shut down the 110-year-old Civilian Marksmanship Program.

I think you guys are missing the whole idea. The ban is on "re-imports" of military firearms. In other words, any firearm that was exported by the United States to another Country will now be banned from re-entry into the United States, with the possible exception of returning it to the Military, or a museum. Neither the Military nor the museums will be allowed to sell these firearms to private individuals. CMP is a private entity, much like the Post Office. They have relied on the sale of these firearms to support their gun education programs. Once their current supply is gone, that will be the end of the firearms sales. This all stems from the UN treaties banning the transfers of military weapons from Country to Country for private individuals and circumvents the Second Amendment.

[KnickKnack]

That the CMP is allowed to stay in business while the private for profits lose their business models is pure cronyism!

Tim, please explain further. What do you mean by "business models", and how are they being lost?

[seaninmich]

CMP doesnt Import anything. Should not have any affect on them


You're fishing. Don't let semantics put you at ease. These are the same people who don't know the difference between a clip and a mag or a bullet and a cartridge or automatic and semi-automatic. The fact is, the intent is to stop ALL those guns from coming back into the country - ALL OF THEM. They are not going to let some "well, we don't technically 'import' them" loop hole stop that. No different than all the knuckleheads in the commie states that are all happy that they think they now get to keep their garands because the new law saws "detachable mag" and not "enbloc". if they think "enbloc" isn't next, they are too stupid to be allowed to live

[timshufflin]

Tim, please explain further. What do you mean by "business models", and how are they being lost?


KK, if my business model is to buy old mosin's, FAL kits, 9mm's, Garand's, Carbine's, over seas and now I cannot buy these items over seas, how can I make any money? My business model is dead. Now, this law appears to focus on the reimporting of US made arms but I don't believe that for a minute. People's lives are ruined by laws like this and my life may very well be one of them. If US martial arms cannot get their way back home then I lose customers who want to restore them, modify them, re-barrel them.

This law is a direct afront to my business and my business supports my entire local post office directly. I am pretty sure that my economic footprint in my community is substantial, it may no longer be so and only because one beast of a sub human has declared it such. May it get the bone cancer soon.

[KnickKnack]

KK, if my business model is to buy old mosin's, FAL kits, 9mm's, Garand's, Carbine's, over seas and now I cannot buy these items over seas, how can I make any money? My business model is dead. Now, this law appears to focus on the reimporting of US made arms but I don't believe that for a minute. People's lives are ruined by laws like this and my life may very well be one of them. If US martial arms cannot get their way back home then I lose customers who want to restore them, modify them, re-barrel them.

This law is a direct afront to my business and my business supports my entire local post office directly. I am pretty sure that my economic footprint in my community is substantial, it may no longer be so and only because one beast of a sub human has declared it such. May it get the bone cancer soon.

OK, I understand now. I just wasn't clear on what "business model" you were referring too. Just to play Devil's Advocate, wouldn't blocking CMP from obtaining these firearms also cripple your business? I am guessing that the vast majority of the M1 rifles and carbines that you re-park were purchased from CMP by others, which either helped you establish your business, or at least enhanced it. My point here is that every time a Government restriction is imposed, even if it was on only one business, it has a domino effect on all other like businesses. The extreme example of this is the Affordable Healthcare Act, commonly referred to as Obamacare. As more parts of this Bill are implemented, it has a ripple effect not only through the Healthcare Industry, but through the entire Business Community.

[ordmm]

Back in the 1980's when it was one M1 in a lifetime from the DCM, and before the first big import of M1 Garand rifles happened a couple of companies produced Garand receivers. Most were crap, but the Springfield (Geneseo) version was petty well done. Just like the market drives the M14 semi-auto receivers, I'm thinking that once GI Garand "donor" rifles dry up, which is still down the road a bit, if there is enough market Garand receivers will be produced. It also may be a bit of a generational thing, and it just may be that the M14 clone demand is greater. The other wild card is that the CMP seems to have decided to run a "pro shop". Am curious to see if they hold back rifles and or receivers to supply their own business. The fact is that the CMP competes directly with many in the rifle market. They most definitely have a monopoly as far as the Garand business goes which puts most builders/shops at an obvious disadvantage.

[timshufflin]

OK, I understand now. I just wasn't clear on what "business model" you were referring too. Just to play Devil's Advocate, wouldn't blocking CMP from obtaining these firearms also cripple your business? I am guessing that the vast majority of the M1 rifles and carbines that you re-park were purchased from CMP by others, which either helped you establish your business, or at least enhanced it. My point here is that every time a Government restriction is imposed, even if it was on only one business, it has a domino effect on all other like businesses. The extreme example of this is the Affordable Healthcare Act, commonly referred to as Obamacare. As more parts of this Bill are implemented, it has a ripple effect not only through the Healthcare Industry, but through the entire Business Community.

You're not playing devils advocate at all, I would have to care more about my profit then I do about our government implementing cronyism, I do not. It is high time that folks quit looking out for themselves and start looking out for their kids and what is right. cronyism is leading to the destruction of this country and I couldn't possibly care any less who it benefits. All of us should be treated the same under equal protection under the law. That the CMP is allowed to profit, pay its high salaries, provide great wealth to its employees and some private company must fail is absolute BS!

If the CMP cannot get its rifles then I would surely suffer. If some importer cannot get its guns then I will surely suffer. I will not choose one over the other so that I can suffer less. If the CMP is targeted under this edict by the great satan then more of us will speak against it and try to stop it. This is what we need, a united voice.

Isn't everyone tired of our government picking winners and losers? If you are, quit being part of the problem and look past what just benefits you. I am that guy who will cut off my nose to spite my face, are you?

[ordmm]

You're not playing devils advocate at all, I would have to care more about my profit then I do about our government implementing cronyism, I do not. It is high time that folks quit looking out for themselves and start looking out for their kids and what is right. cronyism is leading to the destruction of this country and I couldn't possibly care any less who it benefits. All of us should be treated the same under equal protection under the law. That the CMP is allowed to profit, pay its high salaries, provide great wealth to its employees and some private company must fail is absolute BS!

If the CMP cannot get its rifles then I would surely suffer. If some importer cannot get its guns then I will surely suffer. I will not choose one over the other so that I can suffer less. If the CMP is targeted under this edict by the great satan then more of us will speak against it and try to stop it. This is what we need, a united voice.

Isn't everyone tired of our government picking winners and losers? If you are, quite being part of the problem and look past what just benefits you. I am that guy who will cut off my nose to spite my face, are you?



Tim,. Very well stated about the government picking winners and losers.

[Punch The Clown]

I've had discussions with Tim regarding my simplistic views of economics. I still believe that the only real economy is one with a product. To me it has to be tangible. Right now fortunes are made and lost on speculation and nothing concrete. In the final analysis, to me our economy is nothing more than a casino game.

As far as people like Tim and Greg, Jim Yocum, and all the other small businesses that depend on milsurp work for their livelihoods-they are nothing more than virgins to be sacrificed to the sandy hook political volcano. The fact that these small businesses support other small businesses and so on and so on is irrelevant to the vote grabbers. Anyway, I'm selling off my "milsurp industry futures" and investing heavily in pork belly.

[Roadkingtrax]

Punch The Clown;38565 Anyway, I'm selling off my "milsurp industry futures" and investing heavily in pork belly.

Thought that was orange juice...


http://www.mise-in-sane.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/21_TradingPlaces_BD.jpg

What is the plan after the finite resources of the Military Surplus dry up? What is the natural course of events.

Speaking directly to the product, whether through illegal attacks on our constitution or other countries just destroying them...what happens then? The business model changes to something else perhaps?

What about phosphate finishes for other parts not firearm related? Aerospace, industrial, etc.?

[Punch The Clown]

Thought that was orange juice...

No, pork belly.



http://www.mise-in-sane.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/21_TradingPlaces_BD.jpg

You always find the most appropriate pictures.



What about phosphate finishes for other parts not firearm related? Aerospace, industrial, etc.?

Yeah, I see the need for a 150 year old finish for the space program.

[ttwn0324]

The Army donates the riffles to the CMP. And, I am sure there is twelve miles of red tape they go thru to do so. The powers that be could step in at any time and say "No, destroy them". Much like Billy "Blow Me" Clinton did. The good thing about an executive order is it isn't writing in stone and can be throwing out with the next to follow. Here's the thing, Orest has already made statements over the years they know who has what and that is where they'll probable stay. The question has always been what comes next after the Garands are gone. Answer has always been "Oh, we have plenty" up till mid 2012 when Orest was asked again and he side step the next and put a time frame of about 5 years with current stock. That was before Newtown, so who knows how many years were knocked off from the rush. The CMP's days of selling firearms on any scale were numbered anyway. The order bans military arms that were sold to other countries and bans the importing of US military property by a private entity. It does not ban the military from bringing back its property or even buying it back. Plus, it does not ban any public entity from doing so and doing what they will with them. I am sorry to say the army can still receive back its lend-lease arms and donate them to the CMP if it wants to unless ordered otherwise. And, even when they have been ordered to destroy arms in the past, they have a beautiful way of dragging there feet and misplacing 1000's of crates for years.

[seaninmich]

Ptlus, it does not ban any public entity from doing so and doing what they will with them. I am sorry to say the army can still receive back its lend-lease arms and donate them to the CMP if it wants to unless ordered otherwise. .

Cmp is a private 501.c.3

[ttwn0324]

Cmp is a private 501.c.3

Correct, I know this. It still doesn't stop the army from donating riffles to them that came from overseas. But, like Mr. Shufflin has said it'll start putting a lot of hurt on people. And, I would say when the fine print comes out, it will also include any & all parts as well.

[KnickKnack]

[QUOTE=Yeah, I see the need for a 150 year old finish for the space program.[/QUOTE]

What space program?

[ttwn0324]

I have to wonder, seeing the two orders have not been giving yet, if they are not being used as chip for support on Syria. Politically it makes no sense to ask congressional support and at the same time take a swing at the majority of them.

Article clears a few things up. http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/08/29/the-legalities-of-the-new-executive-order/

[Old Guard]

I have to wonder, seeing the two orders have not been giving yet, if they are not being used as chip for support on Syria. Politically it makes no sense to ask congressional support and at the same time take a swing at the majority of them.

Article clears a few things up. http://www.pagunblog.com/2013/08/29/the-legalities-of-the-new-executive-order/
This article refers to the Korean rifles again??Did Century arms buy the rifles and parts? Tim, I beleve you to be correct, as the Enblock clips argument will be MOOT..Garands Will be ruled illegal in All the commie states..False hope in beating the deadline of 2014, and owning one there...Just my view here in a Hillbilly state where moonshine is now legally sold at the stores..$29.00 a quart... Freedoms..

[timshufflin]

^^
I don't know for sure who has or has not purchased any of the Korean rifles. I do know that it would really suck if you arranged financing, paid for the rifles, hired new staff, only to be left with nothing by a know nothing president.

[Orlando]

I was told by a Ohio company that was also bidding that Century did win the auction on rifles and parts and paid handsomely for them.
Wether this is true or not I dont know just what I was told

[ttwn0324]

Yes, Century arms bought around 80k M1 Garands. Originally, back in 09 SK was going to auction off some 80k Garands and 22k carbines. We said, okay. Then changed our minds. Two years latter we okay the sale of just the garands and parts. They auction them off and Century wins. They have been trying to get them here ever since. In June 2013 Collectible Firearms Protection Act Bill H.R. 2247 is introduced in the house to allow the importation of certain firearms listed as curios or relics into the United States by a licensed importer without the requirement of an authorization from or payment to the Department of State or the Department of Defense (DOD) upon certification to the Attorney General that such firearms are lawfully possessed under the laws of the exporting country. Fast forward, EO is supposedly issued. No copy of it has yet to be released. Why, because I think it was actually done in march under executive order 13637 which leads to this https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2013/04/22/2013-09392/importation-of-defense-articles-and-defense-services-us-munitions-import-list-2011r-20p.

[Prince Humperdink]

Century sent me an e-mail this am asking me to contact my reps on this matter.

[ttwn0324]

pdf of Century's call to action: http://www.centuryarms.com/DriveEngine/%7B1100788286%7Dcall%20to%20action%20final.pdf

[Old Guard]

pdf of Century's call to action: http://www.centuryarms.com/DriveEngine/%7B1100788286%7Dcall%20to%20action%20final.pdf

Thanks for posting this..Interesting, but noted the wishywashy tactics used by the current administration..They are certainly trying to make a smoke screen to cover their Butts... while attempting to invade other countrys..Therefore keeping the heat turned off here....I read that the cost of the bid was $28 million dollars not incuding the Politicians fees...

[ttwn0324]

If I'm not mistaken the ban includes parts also. Which is the key to this. The spot lite is being focused on the M1 Garands. But, we forget its been 50 years since the M16 was first introduced overseas. While the riffle itself is not importable, that doesn't mean parts weren't. I don't think we'll see to many more of the A1 part kits being offered and probable a lot of the 1911 kits. I think they're doing whatever they can to dry the market of part kits and even individual parts. I am waiting for a change to what's been termed the 80% Receiver rule. That is been proposed (and in fact, part kits as well) in bill H.R. 2910. pdf link to the bill: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-113hr2910ih/pdf/BILLS-113hr2910ih.pdf This bill if passed is devastating.