This was probaly the WORST question to ask....

[ordmm]

Sorry, just seemed to be the question to ask...all things considered.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=119662

[timshufflin]

Oh, I saw it. You will receive the wrath from hell for even questioning, of course you already knew that.

[ttwn0324]

What better way to spend some vacation time on then riling up diehard CMP groupies.

[Roadkingtrax]

What better way to spend some vacation time on then riling up diehard CMP groupies.

This is outstanding. Its already turned into you want instant gratification....LOL

Truth is, you deliver a quality product in a timely manner...this has nothing to do with supporting the CMP. It is a fair question, but my favorite response is Zvenoman.

I'm eating this up...

[ttwn0324]

I have know idea how many riffles they are sending out the door everyday. But I can imagine if the custom shop is any thing like the riffle side, waiting line is going to long.

[Roadkingtrax]

Guys are using the analogy that quality takes time....

So the minute CMP says they'll bed a stock, they are held in the high regards of the handful of old time M1 guru's across the country that have an 18 month backlog?

[ordmm]

Oh, I saw it. You will receive the wrath from hell for even questioning, of course you already knew that.

Of course I knew it. But 'ya know sometimes reading a bunch of crap some blowmeisters post really gets me nuts. When I'm late shipping people send me emails calling me out on late delivery (much deserved and no real excuse) but when CMP spends a whole lot of months doing it some people get orgasms about it. Can't figure it out. Would imagine Orest will get real testy tomorrow and I will get banned. No loss. Maybe I'll start shipping on time. :) Grin. (Picked that up from Gus Fisher)

[ordmm]

Just remember. I'm a lazy retired former Government employee. At this stage of my life I don't care. But..anyway I appreciate how you feel.

[ordmm]

What better way to spend some vacation time on then riling up diehard CMP groupies.

Vacation? I hav'nt worked since 2002...and I retired in 2012. Been on vacation since 2002.

[timshufflin]

Of course I knew it. But 'ya know sometimes reading a bunch of crap some blowmeisters post really gets me nuts. When I'm late shipping people send me emails calling me out on late delivery (much deserved and no real excuse) but when CMP spends a whole lot of months doing it some people get orgasms about it. Can't figure it out. Would imagine Orest will get real testy tomorrow and I will get banned. No loss. Maybe I'll start shipping on time. :) Grin. (Picked that up from Gus Fisher)

You pose an interesting phenomenon. When I started my business model here's how I did it;
A. I took into account my past experiences with the gun industry. Yep, I just took my personal experiences and applied them to my business. I tried to get a rifle parked once and was told to call back in 3 months! No, not to send it in 3 months but to call back in 3 months to see if I could send it!
B. I come from a fast food background almost entirely right out of college. We had a 30 second drive thru window expectation and a 3 minute total wait in the drive thru from the moment you entered the drive thru stack. Why those expectations? Because the customers expect their stuff in a timely fashion in comparison to the other vendors in the business.
C. I noticed that the "big names" in my business had turn times that were WAY WAY out there. Past a year in many cases. I looked at some of their work, got some feedback from some who had it done. It is MY opinion that EGO was the driving force in many cases to have these vendors do your work. The ability to say that "I had my rifle worked on by the famous xyz gunsmith and it took 2 years for the work" really appeals to some.
D. Wherever I went and looked at forum comments from those who got rifles back from xyz gunsmith I ultimately found the comment "it took 2 years but it was WORTH the WAIT". The very fact that they mention "it was worth the wait" told me that speed of service was a factor to them in the back of their mind but they justified the wait because their ego was fed by, in many cases, being able to say xyz did the work.
E. I found a silent majority who would comment on such posts with things like "wow, 2 years", "that's a long time to do a gun", "I don't know if I could wait that long", ...

I became convinced that if a new company, like mine, was to break into this business, it had to be fast. It also had to do a few other things like: Listen, empathize, not talk above the customer, not be condescending to the customer, it had to treat the customer like the customer is actually a customer. I found this key aspect lacking in my conversations with vendors. I actually had some vendors insult me when I simply asked about their turn around times. They were literally offended because I even asked.

I started at 5 day turnaround time, had to go to 30 when the 2012 shootings happened, just caught up to go back to 5 but have to have hand surgery. After the surgery is over, barring any other tragedy in our industry, I'll be back to five days.

You can get quality in five business days! During normal times I can do three park jobs a day. If I do my own rifles, where parts swapping is not a factor, I can do 6 rifles a day. A clown can do 1 rifle a day, it isn't hard. Remember, parkerizing is simply refinishing a rifle and assembling it. It is not doing any real work on it. There is no real skill involved in simply assembling a rifle so this nonsensical crap about you can't get quality, speed, and cheap from one vendor is just that, crap.

[ttwn0324]

"Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 1,187
Default
I'm an artist and a craftsman of considerable skill. I do beautiful work and I'm honest, polite and fair. These qualities place my services well above the norm. As was mentioned earlier one of my credos has always been "Price, Quality, Speed...pick two. Another comes from an old partner, "You must come to the flame, the flame will not come to you.". What am I going on about? The skilled practitioner always has the upper hand. Simple economics, too much money chasing too few goods. Everybody has money but few have skills. If there's anything I don't like about a customer or a deal I politely hand them their hat and direct them to a competitor. There's always another customer. After 35 years in business, I'm still here doing beautiful work, still picking and choosing my clients. So with nothing but love for those who would like my services, it's still "My way or the highway..."
I expect the CMP Custom Shop is thinking this way too.
__________________
give me liberty or give me death
GSM Master Instructor
NRA Life Member
The trouble ain't that there is too many fools, but that the lightning ain't distributed right. ~Mark Twain"

Perfect example of what Mr. Shufflin was getting at. I deal with an automotive machinist that's just like this. The contempt he holds makes it impossible to deal with him and the older he gets the worse he gets. I understand the "Price, Quality, Speed" theory, it was in a movie that explained it quite well. But I am a human and when I hand over cash and get phone calls every couple months for 12 months needing more cash because prices changed, I am going to get a little upset. There are few rainmakers in this world and a lot who think they are. Unfortunately the human psyche perceives long wait times with a long customers list as something that must be beholding if so many are wanting and willing to wait. Well, I have waited in line 3 hours for many of a roller coaster ride and nun have been a revelation.

[canes7]

I'd love to know what that guy does for a living and the name of his business. I'd like to look him up to verify his claim. Usually those "craftsmen" of "considerable skill" do no need to tell others about it. Those that feel they need make those claims usually are not "craftsmen of considerable skill".

I also like the assertion at the end "I expect the CMP Custom Shop is thinking this way too.". How is it that the CMP Custom Shop has not done one job yet and they already have a positive reputation? I would think that someone with 35 years of "considerable skill" would know you have to build a reputation.

[REHRIFLE]

Orest's response shows him to be a prick running a monopoly. He would not last long in the for profit private sector.

I'm with Orlando and his comments on the CMP thread. If someone asks about the time, quality etc., refer them to Shuff.

[ordmm]

Well. To say the least some of the replies were quite interesting. The upside it sounds like Tim is going to get all the overflow work.
Tim,,,,Time to hire more Toby's!!!!

[timshufflin]

Well. To say the least some of the replies were quite interesting. The upside it sounds like Tim is going to get all the overflow work.
Tim,,,,Time to hire more Toby's!!!!


Yah right, I won't be holding my breath.

[Old Guard]

Okay, But still believe it will lead to Gold for you, Tim..reading that thread on CMp was very amusing, esp. since I am a newby on the web, but for certain not a wet-eared kid..I waited almost 4 mos for that service grade HRA rifle, then they mixed the parts up, in usual fashion.There was no other place to get one for that price, since i do not have a FFL, and none in the local stores?

[kwg020]

Tim said:
"You can get quality in five business days"!

That's why you have a following and regular customers, Tim. You seem to have set a new industry standard. I had the chance to look over a couple of Mini G's at a local gun show recently. The work was excellent and the rifles looked awesome. You have a product that people can use and are proud to own. kwg

[timshufflin]

Tim said:
"You can get quality in five business days"!

That's why you have a following and regular customers, Tim. You seem to have set a new industry standard. I had the chance to look over a couple of Mini G's at a local gun show recently. The work was excellent and the rifles looked awesome. You have a product that people can use and are proud to own. kwg

Well right now that 5 day thing has gone to hell. I have to probably stop taking work now until I get this stupid carpal tunnel taken care of. I'm so booked up after the 2012 gun scares and then just when I'm about to get caught up, stupid medical issue. Why can't the savages do their killing with a Toyota Prius and leave the gun industry be.

[Kablemodem]

Tim, I recently sent my Garand trigger in for a trigger job. Should I expect to wait until you get your carpal tunnel taken care of, or are you still working?