308 Garand shorter?

[TommyD11730]

Ok so a fellow has a Garand in 308 on gunbroaker. It's chambered for 308 and he claims the rifle is 1/2 shorter then a standard Garand.

Is this typical of a 308 Garands? Just where does the rifle loose the 1/2"?

[Eli]

It's likely a "Tipo II" Italian conversion, they mchined about 1/2" off the rear of the barrel and shortened the other parts as neccessary to go from 7.62*63 (.30-06) to 7.62*51 (.308).

Eli

[Old Guard]

It's likely a "Tipo II" Italian conversion, they mchined about 1/2" off the rear of the barrel and shortened the other parts as neccessary to go from 7.62*63 (.30-06) to 7.62*51 (.308).

Eli

Okay, so they took the trouble to cut the barrels and re-work the chambers? Tipo II, does that fit the normal garand gastube and op rod? Other words, If purchased the italian parts could convert a Us standard Garand to 7.62 nato..? That Correct?

[jbkf1003]

The oprod is about 1/2" shorter. I the stock / hgs are also modified, the follower arm possibly as well. Everything else I think is standard.

[TommyD11730]

So are all 308 Garands built "short" ?

[jbkf1003]

So are all 308 Garands built "short" ?

No, just this particular conversion. The Navy used a chamber insert in their Garands to make them chamber for 308, so the rest of the rifle was unaltered. New commercial conversions just use a specifically made 308 Garand barrel. (The navy did a bit of this too I believe). The new conversions require no other modification other than a 308 barrel. Everything else is stock and 100% compatible with a 30-06 Garand.

Who knows why the Italians do anything they do.

Justin

[Eli]

Who knows why the Italians do anything they do.

They were cheap! I think it was roughly $50 to convert a standard M1 Rifle to a BM59SL, this was substantially less than the cost of a new rifle. Labor in Italy was nearly free in the 1950s and 1960s, so it was a lot lower cost to shorten existing parts than manufacture or purchase new ones.

Eli

[jbkf1003]

Yeah but it can't be cheaper to modify all those parts as opposed to the chamber insert method we used?

[TommyD11730]

Million dollar question, when browsing gunbroker whats the best way to tell how the rifle was shortened?

Great info, thanks for the education guys!!

[jbkf1003]

If it's a US Navy conversion it wasn't shortened. If it has a commercial 308 barrel (ex. Criterion) then it's fine also. Only if it's Italian then you need to worry. If the seller is knowledgeable and honest he should tell you what kind of conversion it is, if it's an Italian 'Tipo 2' conversion then it's shortened.

Your best bet might be to get a normal Garand (possibly from the CMP) and have it rebarreled. The barrels run about $180, you can usually get it rebarreled for under $100. Then it would have a new accurate criterion barrel.

CMP Service Grade : 625
New Barrel (308) : 180
CMP Custom Shop Barrel install: 75

Total: $880 w/ new barrel

Justin

[TommyD11730]

What your saying makes a lot of sense. I'm just looking for a donor for a 308/Mag fed conversion so why not go the route you described.

Thanks.

[Eli]

Yeah but it can't be cheaper to modify all those parts as opposed to the chamber insert method we used?

The inset method was rather unreliable (insets extracted with empties), the Italian method worked rather well.

Eli