New guy with some Mini-G Build questions...

[CWes]

Hello everyone, I’m new here (coming over from the CMP forums) and have been reading up and doing research on the Mini-G for a while now. Lots of great information, but have a few questions as I put my parts together in preparation to send to Mr. Shufflin.

First, what I have so far (mostly spare parts from other builds):
1) 1.2 million Winchester annealed receiver. It has some light rust under the wood line and could use a touchup and repark, but I’m worried that might change the beautiful original USGI finish.
2) Internal parts are from CMP, all are post-war
3) Gas cylinder is USGI (which is what I want, I don’t want to go the drop-down BM59 route). I have a couple of options, but all are in good order
4) Front sight is a BM59 from Standard Parts (read these work better with the shorter barrel and their slimmer post)
5) Bolt is a NOS SA
6) Rear sights are NOS PB
7) OP Rod is a 77RA
8) Trigger group is a mix of mostly SA WWII parts
9) I have a Ultimak rear hand guard/rail for the project
10) Stock is up in the air, have a couple of options on hand, but might order a laminate one from Dupage

Questions moving forward:

1) Muzzle devices: I picked up a BM59E from Standard Parts. I’m not recoil sensitive, and from what I’ve read recoil isn’t much different out of Mini G compared to the full size version. Muzzle climb would be the biggest advantage to this option. From what I’ve read, this does nothing for muzzle flash, which from a 16.25” barrel looks like a bigger issue, especially in lower light conditions (hunting). Are there any good and cost-effective options for a flash hider (USGI seem hard to come by, and expensive when they do). Does anyone have an experience with the Fulton Armory “Flash Suppressor, Pronged, T-37”? Is this one of the cheap ones people warn about or is it serviceable? I have seen where others here have shortened the prongs on these so they don’t stick out so far, but are they still effective in the shorter modified length at reducing muzzle flash (and if so, how short can they be modified and still serve their purpose?)?

2) I don’t have a barrel for the receiver yet (well, not really… I have a Criterion 308 barrel which I purchased for a future full-size build/swap). I’m leaning toward staying with 30-06 since that is what my other Garands are as well as what I use in my Win 70. Having a common caliber makes sense. I don’t want to cut up a USGI barrel, but also want one which will give a long service life (I hope to use this for many years of hunting and recreational shooting). So my thought is to buy a Criterion barrel and use that for the build (CMP seems to be the cheapest, but the wait is a month+ for most orders). From what I’ve read there isn’t much of difference between 308 & 30-06 out of the Mini G as far as accuracy, range, velocity, effectiveness, muzzle flash, etc, so is there any reason not to go with 30-06 or to go with 308 instead?


Thanks in advance for the advice and input. This forum has been a great resource thus far and I apologize if the above had been covered to death…

Craig

[jbkf1003]

Hi Craig,

Your parts sound fine.

The muzzle brakes do a good job with recoil and muzzle control. Only drawback I have noticed is they are loud for nearby shooters, not for the trigger puller. I haven't noticed a muzzle flash issue from behind the rifle, but I have only shot in bright daylight.

I think the FA flash hider is just the same import as the rest of them. If you really want a flash hider, try to get a USGI hider. I would go with the brake and wait. Some guys have been working to build some gas locks that will allow you to attach normal 30 cal after market muzzle devices. If something like that comes out then you could use any number of flash hiders. Rather than shell out a ton of dough for real T-37.

I went with a criterion on my 30-06 mini-g build. 30-06 HXP is still cheaper than surplus 308, and I have a ton of it so that's why I went 30-06. At some point when the CMP runs out it will be a bit of a different story The criterions are great barrels, and should last as long and be as accurate (if not more) than a USGI barrel. If you don't want to wait for the CMP, Tim carries barrels, if he is out, DGR Restorations sells them as well.

Justin

[Jgun]

I may be mistaken but I thought that Tim won't build you a G from a box of parts. I thought you had to give him an assembled rifle, or buy one of his builds. You might want to check with him on that. Also, I guess you already know that using the Ultimak with your Garand gas cylinder will require that the op rod and Ultimak be modified, but not needed with the BM 59 drop down from Standard parts. I also went with the Garand GC, just because I like that look. Not sure what advice to give on the annealed receiver, would be a shame to refinish that if it looks good. You're going to love the way the G handles, good luck.

[timshufflin]

1. I'm with these guys, of the repro foreign made T37's I know, they all suck.

2. Just go with whatever barrel you want, I see no reason for either except what ammo you have.

3. I will build from a box of parts so long as you have all the parts. Try and assemble your stuff loosely before you send it so you can see it's all there.

[jbkf1003]

I print one of these out, it seems like once every couple of weeks... Then I just cross out the parts once I acquire them...

http://www.chestnutridge.com/gpic.asp

[CWes]

Thanks for the replies and advice, especially on the brake/flash hider. I’ve never had a reason to use these, so I’m pretty clueless about them except from reading up on them here and on other sites/forums. I’ll stick with the BM59E Muzzle Brake that have, but it looks like it might need a little relief work on the underside as there is some rubbing (and resulting marks) from installing it on the gas cylinder. Is this a common issue or can I leave it as is (my skills and comfort level are limited) and not worry about it? I anticipate using the brake for hunting, but might remove it for range sessions.

As soon as my 30-06 Criterion barrel arrives I’ll proceed with the process. I have some specific questions for Mr. Shufflin regarding my (soon I hope) build, but they would probably be better asked/addressed either via email or in the “Ask Shuff” forum.

Again, thanks for the replies everyone!

Craig

[jbkf1003]

The BM59Es rub. I am using one on a build that is at Shuff's right now. I think they are ok rubbing, but I relieved some material with a dremel before I sent it along and asked Tim to repark it during the build. We'll see how I did relieving it when it comes back.

[timshufflin]

You can also lathe down the gas lock screws. Either way, it's only cosmetic.

[Jgun]

I had to relieve my BM59E brake for clearance as well.

[CWes]

jbkf1003 and Jgun:

How much did you guys remove? It doesn't look like there is much rubbing taking place when I install a standard gas lock screw (and I assume the dimensions of the Schuster are the same as the USGI ones), but there are some rub marks. Do you have pictures of your handy work by chance? If I need to make the mod now would be the time so that I can get it touched up/reparked along with the rest while Tim has it.

Craig

[Jgun]

CWes, Since you have the barrel (even if you don't end up using that one) just slip your gas cylinder on it, screw on the brake, and see how much interference you've got with your gas plug. On mine, I used a straight shouldered burr in my dremel, and only had to relieve a small amount on the two edges of the brake at the back where the radius cut meets the shoulder where the gas plug seats. I used a little layout dye to double check that there was no interference. I didn't have to remove much material at all.

[CWes]

I just tried it on one of my other Garands, the rubbing/binding starts when the threads start to catch. I was using a Garand Gear lock screw that I had laying around before and it would rub, but still screw in. I just used a USGI (SA) lock that was on the test rifle, and it rubbed even more and the lock screw got stuck (easily removed with socket wrench). Looks like it will need to be relieved about 1/4" in the center to allow for proper clearance.

[Jgun]

I'm guessing that you mean a 1/4" wide section in the middle. I would just suggest trying not to remove any material from the shoulder where the plug seats, if at all possible. If you've got a burr that's larger in dia or with a longer shank, it may make it easier to clear the bottom of the brake. material cut easilly for me.

[jbkf1003]

On mine the threads of the Schuster plug bit into the BM59E, right in the center of the relieved section. So all I did was with a dremel and a tapered stone bit removed the thread marks, then a bit more, in the end pretty much the whole relieved section of the brake was in the white. The rifle it was on recently got a Standard Parts drop down cylinder and the appropriate brake. The BM59E was going in a box of parts to Tim for a new build, so I didn't try installing a plug on it again before I sent it off to Tim, so we'll see how I did when it comes back.

[CWes]

Thanks for the help and replies!

I removed some of the metal on the BM59E brake and a USGI lock screw goes in now. My next dumb question is about the colors of park. I have the order form up and ready and up till now had "zinc" selected because from what I've read and seen online, it makes the lead dipped/annealed heel show up nicely (which mine has). But... If I now need to have the muzzle brake done too because of having to do this mod, will I end up with a sliver/grey one rather than it's original black?

This has me thinking the manganese park might be better, but I'm worried it would be too dark and the heal might not show up as prominently. I did some searching and didn't find any pictures of manganese park to see what it would look like with the annealed heel.

An alternative would be to pay the extra $35 and do a combo park job, but I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible.

Thanks again for your expertise...

Craig

[seaninmich]

I removed some of the metal on the BM59E brake and a USGI lock screw goes in now. My next dumb question is about the colors of park. I have the order form up and ready and up till now had "zinc" selected because from what I've read and seen online, it makes the lead dipped/annealed heel show up nicely (which mine has). But... If I now need to have the muzzle brake done too because of having to do this mod, will I end up with a sliver/grey one rather than it's original black?

This has me thinking the manganese park might be better, but I'm worried it would be too dark and the heal might not show up as prominently. I did some searching and didn't find any pictures of manganese park to see what it would look like with the annealed heel.

An alternative would be to pay the extra $35 and do a combo park job, but I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible.

Thanks again for your expertise...

Craig

Any parts that won't take park - gas lock, screw, gas cylinder - get a baking lacquer. They are going to be dark manganese to black in color no matter what you do with the rest of the rifle

[CWes]

Thanks SeaninMich. I should have asked what the BM59E Brake was made of to begin with, I didn't think of it being a part (like the gas cylinder) which doesn't take park. Others on here have posted that they've had Tim touch theirs up and I assumed (bad I know) that they meant park. I'd want the brake to be dark like the rest of the front end parts, which is what had me leaning toward the darker manganese over the lighter zinc.

Still not sure which to go with, based on the pictures from Tim's site they both look great. I just don't like the really dark "Greek Black" park if I can avoid it. Decisions decisions...

[seaninmich]

I will tell you this: when I first got into garands, the only park I liked was zinc. I thought mang looked like shiznit. a long time ago in a land far away, Tim convinced me to do a manganese garand and I've been hooked ever since. I'll never do another zinc. If you check out my website or any of my ebay auctions, EVER part I sell is in manganese. It will NOT look like Greek Black (which I don't mind either). No park looks like greek black. unfortunately, most people only THINK they know what greek black looks like. fully 3/4 of posts I read where a guy thinks he has greek black are actually original USGI finish parkerization.

[timshufflin]

The BM59E brake is not stainless, just to be clear. It will park.