Lower barrel band question with pics.

[Greg]

I got My Mini-G from Tim last month. I don't kow alot the "tanker" Garand's yet so I am still learning. I noticed that the bend in the Op-rod procludes the use of a roll pin on the lower barrel band to keep it from moving. I know that in a full size Garand this an issue that affects accuracy. Does the same apply to a Mini-G? With the front handguard deleted and having a Ultimak on my Mini-G the only thing that the lower barrel band should be doing is hepling to lock the reciever into the stock. My lower barrel band moves foward and back with little pressure. I can locktite the band but just curious if it is really nessary on the Mini-G. I posted a pic of the family that my Mini-G joined. I still love my classic Garand but I think that I will be shooting it alot less since I got the Mini-G. Sorry for the crappy cell pics but didn't feel like going through the hassle of getting out the digital camera.

[seaninmich]

Even full size garands don't NEED the pin. Your receiver isn't going anywhere in the stock

[Jgun]

I noticed the same thing when I got mine. I was also concerned because when I read in Kuhnhausens book about the mods that are done to accurize the Garands, and from my experience with the M14 types, I have always understood that ideally we want a small amount of draw pressure pulling the barrel down so that it always returns to the same place in relation to the stock from shot to shot, and that the barrel harmonics should be more predictable. But as it was explained to me, due to the fact that the G's barrel is so short (minus 8" from a full size) the harmonics are not as much of a concern. I keep waiting for one of the members here to post a before and after bedding thread . Maybe one of these days, if I find myself with an extra stock to use, I'll try the experiment myself to see if I notice any difference in the accuracy. I think that if your barreled action fits in your stock tightly, and you have good trigger lock up, the difference, if any, will be neglifible. seems to me that the way it is now, the barrel is almost free floated.

[Greg]

Jgun, thank's for your informed post. I was thinking close to the same thing but due to lack of experience with the Mini and tankers I wasn't sure. I know that Tim does quality work and if he didn't worry about the lower band there had to be some reason. As for the previous post Full sized Garand's don't need the pin. I guess that in essence that is true. If you want the best accuracy that you can get, then it is not true unless you have secured the band some other way. I want all of my firearms to shoot the best that they are capable of. That then just leaves me to be the one to screw up the shot. Picky when it comes to my firearms, yes by all means I admit that I am guilty. Prior experience in Law Enforcement and Military has drilled the importance of my weapons into me.

[Punch The Clown]

I noticed the same thing when I got mine. I was also concerned because when I read in Kuhnhausens book about the mods that are done to accurize the Garands, and from my experience with the M14 types, I have always understood that ideally we want a small amount of draw pressure pulling the barrel down so that it always returns to the same place in relation to the stock from shot to shot, and that the barrel harmonics should be more predictable. But as it was explained to me, due to the fact that the G's barrel is so short (minus 8" from a full size) the harmonics are not as much of a concern. I keep waiting for one of the members here to post a before and after bedding thread . Maybe one of these days, if I find myself with an extra stock to use, I'll try the experiment myself to see if I notice any difference in the accuracy. I think that if your barreled action fits in your stock tightly, and you have good trigger lock up, the difference, if any, will be neglifible. seems to me that the way it is now, the barrel is almost free floated.

Jgun is correct. Dampening harmonics is pretty much reserved for long whippy barrels. In the old days leather shims were used at the stock tip. Some manufacturers used adjustment screws to adjust stock pressure. On the Mini-G the lower band is purely cosmetic.

As far as bedding goes. I know that Tim actually "un-beds" the barrel channel for the Mini-G with a miller and a die grinder.

[timshufflin]

24" barrel = whip when fired. 16" barrel = more of a straight stick when fired. Play with a few barrels and you'll see the difference. I can actually bend a full length Garand barrel in my hands, that is, flex it. I'm not able to do that with a 16" stick. If one wanted to pin their lower band, they could. All you would need is to get a straight oprod and a BM59 gas cylinder. After you pinned that setup you would find absolutely 0 difference in accuracy, I have three rifles set up just like that.

I've read Kunhausen and Hatcher, these guys are just that, guys. What the Mini-G is and what some of the other rifles I make are, were not in these two fellows wheel house.

The standard BM59 is not known as a real tack driving machine, even compared to the standard Garand, they both have pinned lower bands. The pin keeps the lower band in the same spot on the barrel but the pin is not what provides the down pressure. The band against the stock ferule provides the down pressure. The Mini-G does have "some down pressure", however slight, but it is limited to what it can give against two short prongs left on the stock ferule.

I know that it is human nature to want to know why, to want to know why not, I hear the "lower band pin is missing" all the time and have for over 6 years. Well, 8" of barrel, 8" of oprod, the original oprod spring, a front hand guard, are all missing. How can life go on? Then the follower rod has a pin, the stock ferule has been neutered, the barrel has an 11 degree target crown, the oprod spring is just a bit bigger then a liberals brain. This isn't a standard Garand and it doesn't have all the same limitations or all the advantages of a standard Garand.

[Old Guard]

24" barrel = whip when fired. 16" barrel = more of a straight stick when fired. Play with a few barrels and you'll see the difference. I can actually bend a full length Garand barrel in my hands, that is, flex it. I'm not able to do that with a 16" stick. If one wanted to pin their lower band, they could. All you would need is to get a straight oprod and a BM59 gas cylinder. After you pinned that setup you would find absolutely 0 difference in accuracy, I have three rifles set up just like that.

I've read Kunhausen and Hatcher, these guys are just that, guys. What the Mini-G is and what some of the other rifles I make are, were not in these two fellows wheel house.

The standard BM59 is not known as a real tack driving machine, even compared to the standard Garand, they both have pinned lower bands. The pin keeps the lower band in the same spot on the barrel but the pin is not what provides the down pressure. The band against the stock ferule provides the down pressure. The Mini-G does have "some down pressure", however slight, but it is limited to what it can give against two short prongs left on the stock ferule.

I know that it is human nature to want to know why, to want to know why not, I hear the "lower band pin is missing" all the time and have for over 6 years. Well, 8" of barrel, 8" of oprod, the original oprod spring, a front hand guard, are all missing. How can life go on? Then the follower rod has a pin, the stock ferule has been neutered, the barrel has an 11 degree target crown, the oprod spring is just a bit bigger then a liberals brain. This isn't a standard Garand and it doesn't have all the same limitations or all the advantages of a standard Garand.
I don't compete with my rifles..The lower pin was left out for trial and then just kept out on my Full size garand.

[jbkf1003]

Hello Sir,

I am not an expert but thought I could add a bit. We are talking about things that are theoretical in nature. Even if your shooting off a bench rest I doubt on a full size Garand you'd see any difference without the pin anyway. I know we want to get everybit of accuracy out of all our weapons, but if I wanted 1 hole accuracy the Garand is not the platform I'd choose.

In my own personal experience, I have found my Mini-G to be more accurate than my standard Garand, but I think that has more to do with the ergonomics of the platform than anything else. The muzzle brake makes keeping it on target and recoil management a lot better (the guys next to me don't like it though.. .hehe), the reduced weight makes shooting off hand more bearable, and reduces shooter fatigue.

One thing I did do was get a BM59 front sight with the narrower blade, it helps with the shorter sight radius.

In the end though, I'm sure though that the 16" barrel is more accurate at the 100yds I typically shoot at anyways, because of reduced barrel whip, but I wouldn't know the difference, I don't typically shoot competition and I am only concerned about minute-of man accuracy at whatever distance the bad guy is at..

Justin

[timshufflin]

There is a way to pin the Mini-G lower band but it also makes the price go upwards. New lower band based on an old tanker design with smaller ID, lathe down the barrel to a smaller OD, put a pin slot in it. All it takes is money :)

[Greg]

There is a way to pin the Mini-G lower band but it also makes the price go upwards. New lower band based on an old tanker design with smaller ID, lathe down the barrel to a smaller OD, put a pin slot in it. All it takes is money :)

Thank you for all the replys. Tim I know that you are the go to guy and I trust your work. Coming from a full size Garand knowledge base to a Mini-G knowledge base is a learning curve. I didn't ask you direct because I didn't want to waste your time answering silly posts. As I stated above if you left it off I knew that you had a good reason. I don't see the need know and it never hurts to ask the forum so you will know.

[timshufflin]

Thank you for all the replys. Tim I know that you are the go to guy and I trust your work. Coming from a full size Garand knowledge base to a Mini-G knowledge base is a learning curve. I didn't ask you direct because I didn't want to waste your time answering silly posts. As I stated above if you left it off I knew that you had a good reason. I don't see the need know and it never hurts to ask the forum so you will know.


Just blaze on, I enjoy the reading :)