ATF Director quits

[MrTwistedFock]

It quit today


http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/20/politics/atf-director-resigning/index.html


Dr. Ho Ho

[timshufflin]

At least you referred to it properly :) I bring this up a lot, is it unethical to be employed by an unethical employer? It is very hard to draw that line on which is deemed unethical or not but if ever there were such a line to be drawn then the atf is over on the other side of that line.

If your police dept. is used to confiscate firearms, is it unethical to be employed by it?
The atf?
The dea?
The department of human services?
The department of homeland security?
The department of epa?

These are moral questions, to be sure, but if people did not take employment with these agencies then they would not exist, now would they.

[MrTwistedFock]

yeah, well I believe it is definitely unethical to knowingly be employed by an unethical employer. The problem is with that approach is, according to the "its not fair" crowd, nearly every outfit does something, somewhere to be unethical to somebody, somehow. So, I take that sort of thinking (black and white thinking) with a huge grain of salt.

Now with specific government organizations, such as the ATF, me personally I actually perceive the ATF as "the enemy." I perceive the modern ATF as a government run gun control federal agency, so there is no way I could ever work for the ATF. To me, the ATF is way below me in my own mind. I am a U.S. citizen and the ATF is a taxpayer funded outfit who one of their duties is, gun control. I have no respect for that.

As far as local police organizations confiscating firearms, I have no actual experience with such nonsense. However I do know it goes on. My impression is that this is worse with certain police agencies than others. Im not anti-police or anti-LEO, but I do perk up and take notice when the local police boss takes a notably gun control public image. As a general rule, Im against it in all but the most severe circumstances.

One criticism I do have of many current era "rank and file" LEO departments is that the majority of LEO who are not feds, an awful lot do not even have a bachelors degree. I believe the best LEO are not former or ex military guys. I happen to believe the kind of people who tend to make the best LEO are reasonably physically fit, college graduates. Four year college grads, NOT associate degree graduates or graduates of these semester long "basic law enforcement training" programs so many Sheriff deputies, bailiffs, city cops and such undergo. Even many State Troopers do not have a bachelors degree! (for entry level)

I think that bachelor degree teaches a person to think more for themselves and to be able to reason, think independently and such more. Just relying on a steady stream of ex enlisted military guys who completed a semester long "basic law enforcement training" program at the local community college does not IMO, provide us with "thinking, functioning cops." What it provides us with are "yes men." I dont want "yes men" in LEO. I want men and women who are law abiding, moral people who do can think and reason on their own, in addition to being able to follow directions and take orders.

As for people just not taking employment with these various alphabet soup group of government organizations, I tend to agree. I for one, would not volunteer for the current military, even if I were of age and fit again. I could not stand the thought my ultimate Commanding Officer would be chocolate Jesus, "the great one" of the progressive democratic party. I'd feel like I was serving in a military that was a communist/socialist sympathizing military. Thats hardcore, I know, but its how I feel about the modern military. A bunch of "yes men" who are getting paid by the U.S. taxpayer.

On the other hand, I respect any military man who has endured injury or death, whether via combat overseas or from a simple training accident. Its a rough life.


At least you referred to it properly :) I bring this up a lot, is it unethical to be employed by an unethical employer? It is very hard to draw that line on which is deemed unethical or not but if ever there were such a line to be drawn then the atf is over on the other side of that line.

If your police dept. is used to confiscate firearms, is it unethical to be employed by it?
The atf?
The dea?
The department of human services?
The department of homeland security?
The department of epa?

These are moral questions, to be sure, but if people did not take employment with these agencies then they would not exist, now would they.