Gotten sick and fffing tired of CMP's "non profit" corporation status

[MrTwistedFock]

I am pissed. For a couple years, Ive wanted to take the CMP live webinar in the Fall on M1 Garand maintenance. Its always been the same price, $25 for the live webinar plus another $25 if you wanted a download version to burn a disk to so you'd have it for keeps. I thought that was a good, solid price for a basic class or clinic, especially on a simple subject.

A few weeks ago, I found out the webinar is being offered this Fall again, several weeks ago, it was the same price listed. $25.00 for the live webinar and another $25.00 for the download for a hardcopy, $50.00 total. OK no problem, sounds good.

Tonight I log onto the site and damn if they had not jacked the price from $25.00 for the live webinar to freaking $100.00!!!! Talk about pissed. WTF is up with the CMP????? Whats up with this "non profit corporation" status thing they claim to be????? When I first got into the CMP, I admit it was a good deal, a real good deal. Now its not.

I can pay that price, but Im not sure if I want to give the CMP that much money for such a topic.

A few years back, CMP was offering the M1 Garand maintenance class FOR FREE in May at Camp Butner!! And the summer I went to Perry in 2013, the "live class" taught there was friggin $10.00.

Sorry, but jacking it from $25.00 to $100 in a few weeks aint non profit corporation prices. I am sorry, I dont agree with the CMP on that one and I believe sincerely the CMP needs to be changed to a for profit corporation if their management continues pulling such shenanigans.

CMP...non profit corporation status my ass. In 2009/2010??? Definitely. Now? Uh uh. I think CMP needs new management.

Also, does anybody really know whats going on with the CMP lately? Ive heard rumors that I cant repeat online, heard a bunch of disgruntled guys offline about the CMP in the last few years.

Just venting...with the NRA you KNOW where you stand. The NRA is a for profit corporation and nobody pretends to be on the cheap there. Plus, you can discuss gun politics on NRA and they actually like that there. CMP pretends to be this non profit corporation but they are starting to charge for profit prices and you cant discuss gun politics at CMP. And CMP gets their stuff from the U.S. Army, except for their ammo. Its like they are subsidized by the U.S. government and then behave as a for profit corporation and then claim to be a non profit corporation. I got a problem with that attitude CMP is putting out lately.

[canes7]

Lots of changes going on with the new leadership.

[MrTwistedFock]

And the "new leadership" is awful. It was best when Gary Anderson was head of the CMP. If the CMP is going to run themselves like a for profit gunstore, they need to FILE as a for profit corporation. Not as a non profit corporation. The lies and lines of bs need to end with the modern CMP.

I know CMP is ultimately controlled by Congress, I think its time to start writing some letters complaining about the "new management" of the CMP and how they seem to be running it like a gunstore. And not so much as a non profit corporation they have filed as being.

Broaching this complaint with CMP directly is a waste of time because they will just bring out their "its a supply and demand problem and issue. Stop your whining nad complaining." Uh uh...if they are going to ACT as for profit corporation, they need to FILE as a for profit corporation and get rid of that stupid group of Board of Trustees they have, all but one or two have never picked up a high power rifle in their life btw. Except to sell to customers or hand the rifle to some winner while their picture is being taken to have it published in a CMP publication.

The bs needs to end. For profit or non profit. Which is it, CMP?



Lots of changes going on with the new leadership.

[Orlando]

I cant understand why you would even pay $25 for such a simple task as maintenance. Nothing they will teach you that you cant learn for free

[jak]

I learned how to disassemble and reassemble the garand just by following the
instructions in the armorer's corner on the cmp website.
Very easy and free.

[MrTwistedFock]

I already know how to do all that stuff, yeah I learned it on my own by reading the manuals and the CMP forum and over the years. I just wanted to take that webinar. They are covering some more advanced stuff like timing and headspacing and they claim, rear sights and I particularly like learning everything I can about the M1 rear sights as I think its one of the keys to shooting that particular rifle...having properly set up rear M1 sights that are mechanically repeatable. Again, on that I already know about all there is to know but I can always pick up another detail here and there.

Its just the principle. $25.00 to $100.00 in three weeks for like you mentioned, "very basic info." Im floored and it irritates me. Im not attacking you, Im just saying I think the CMP needs to end their little line of bs they continue to mask around in that they are a non profit corporation...non profit my ass CMP operates more like a for profit. What are they selling Nightforce scopes for on their e-store now? Last place in the world I'd buy a Nightforce scope from would be the CMP. Whats a nightforce scope got to do with learning basic rifle marksmanship? That all started I observed with the "new management." Nothing wrong with Nightforce scopes, but CMP aint the place to sell them off of, UNLESS CMP wants to transition to a for profit corporation and FILE the correct paperwork and just admit things.

[/I]
I cant understand why you would even pay $25 for such a simple task as maintenance. Nothing they will teach you that you cant learn for free

[MrTwistedFock]

Yeah I know, I already know all that stuff I just wanted to take that webinar, but $100 is a bit much unless its uber duper professional.



I learned how to disassemble and reassemble the garand just by following the
instructions in the armorer's corner on the cmp website.
Very easy and free.

[canes7]

Whatever the market will bear.

That is the phrase all pricing structures should be based on in a free society.

It's $100 because people will pay it. I wonder why people are willing to pay that much. All the information they present is out there on the interwebs for free. YouTube, forums and the CMP's own site (as mentioned above) all can get you thru any M1 maintenance task.

So what's the motivation? To get a piece of paper saying the CMP thinks you know what you are doing? To go into business with the certificate on the wall of the shop?

[MrTwistedFock]

You are missing my main point, entirely. Your claim about the free market applies to FOR PROFIT corporations. I have no problem with CMP operating like this if they want to file as a FOR PROFIT corporation. However, CMP is and has been historically and by Congressional charter, filing as a NON PROFIT corporation, like the Boy Scouts of America, the American Red Cross, Goodwill, The Salvation Army, and many other non profits.

The goal of a non profit is not to make money, the goal of a non profit corporation, BY LAW in our free society, is something else. In this case, its education regarding rifle marksmanship, heavily subsidized by the United States Army via the supply of Army surplus rifles.

CMP should act and behave as a non profit corporation, or they will ultimately end up finding themselves in trouble with the law.


Whatever the market will bear.

That is the phrase all pricing structures should be based on in a free society.

It's $100 because people will pay it. I wonder why people are willing to pay that much. All the information they present is out there on the interwebs for free. YouTube, forums and the CMP's own site (as mentioned above) all can get you thru any M1 maintenance task.

So what's the motivation? To get a piece of paper saying the CMP thinks you know what you are doing? To go into business with the certificate on the wall of the shop?

[musketjon]

I have to agree with Erick on this one. If they were a not-for-profit entity the rifles would still sell for $94.50 and you'd still only be allowed one per lifetime.
Jon

[Orlando]

I am not sticking up for CMP but since when is a non profit organization not allowed to make money??? If this were true there would be no "non profit organizations"

[canes7]

Erik, I did not miss your point.

[MrTwistedFock]

Yes you did miss my point and you still do not get the point. You simply do not want to ADMIT the point. Because like all things you do, you cant stand to lose at anything you do. Even when you are wrong.

Ive taken corporate law, you have not. I know what non profit corporations are supposed to do and what they are not supposed to be doing. CMP and their little escapade crossing over into for profit whatever you wish to call it is getting old. CMP needs to FILE for profit if they continue increasing their prices at this magnitude.

Youre just a mechanically inclined, works with your hands, IT guy anyway, you have no real academic ability. Why am I arguing with someone like you?


I did not miss your point.

[cuppednlocked]

You know that a 501(C)(3) corporation can make money don't you?

Your beloved BSA wouldn't sell popcorn for $28/bag if they weren't trying to turn a profit.

[canes7]

I am certainly not arguing with you so that's a great question. Why are you arguing with me? So go ahead Matlock.. show us all how smart you are. We are anxiously awaiting.

[Punch The Clown]

Yes you did miss my point and you still do not get the point. You simply do not want to ADMIT the point. Because like all things you do, you cant stand to lose at anything you do. Even when you are wrong.

Ive taken corporate law, you have not. I know what non profit corporations are supposed to do and what they are not supposed to be doing. CMP and their little escapade crossing over into for profit whatever you wish to call it is getting old. CMP needs to FILE for profit if they continue increasing their prices at this magnitude.

Youre just a mechanically inclined, works with your hands, IT guy anyway, you have no real academic ability. Why am I arguing with someone like you?

Eric, you are really getting close to crossing the line here. Personal attacks on another BT member just isn't right.
As far as the CMP goes, I am banned for life as you are. My crime was accusing orest and johnson of feathering their nests by selling me back things that my taxes and my parent's taxes already paid for.
As far as the cmp being a non-profit I haven't seen any shareholders receiving dividend checks because there aren't any. I have seen the profits spent for the "Cause", even though I think the cause was to build themselves their own personal Disneyland. Bottom line is by definition they are a non-profit.

[cuppednlocked]

As far as the cmp being a non-profit I haven't seen any shareholders receiving dividend checks because there aren't any. I have seen the profits spent for the "Cause", even though I think the cause was to build themselves their own personal Disneyland. Bottom line is by definition they are a non-profit.

But wait how can that be accurate, MTF took a corporate law class...

[MrTwistedFock]

Thank you for agreeing with me and for not arguing with me.

CMP is indeed a non profit corporation that is supposed to be organized for educational purposes only. Their prices should therefore be based on a non profit corporation model, not a pretend non profit corporation model.


. Bottom line is by definition they are a non-profit.

[MrTwistedFock]

Oh yeah you are indeed arguing with me. You are so FOS.


I am certainly not arguing with you so that's a great question. .

[MrTwistedFock]

No, 501 (C) (3) corporations cannot make profit type money. They are supposed to be able to make enough revenue to achieve their non profit corporation objectives, usually educational in nature. And also make enough money to break even, pay their employees and thats about it. Anything more and a non profit is crossing the line.

As far as the BSA being my "beloved" I am no more in the BSA anymore other than in some alumni organizations. And I dont particularly care for the BSA anymore because they caved to the queers in the last two years. First deciding to admit gay boys and lately, deciding to let queer adults be Scoutmasters. I dont agree with that. So BSA is hardly "my beloved."

And the BSA does not attempt to make profits like the CMP does.


You know that a 501(C)(3) corporation can make money don't you?

Your beloved BSA wouldn't sell popcorn for $28/bag if they weren't trying to turn a profit.

[checkmate19]

This is getting pretty funny$clapper$

[canes7]

Yes. You win. Enjoy.

[Orlando]

I'm just a stupid trash collector and well know a 501 (C) (3) corporations can turn a profit. You better go back to school.

[musketjon]

Eric, you are really getting close to crossing the line here. Personal attacks on another BT member just isn't right.
As far as the CMP goes, I am banned for life as you are. My crime was accusing orest and johnson of feathering their nests by selling me back things that my taxes and my parent's taxes already paid for.
As far as the cmp being a non-profit I haven't seen any shareholders receiving dividend checks because there aren't any. I have seen the profits spent for the "Cause", even though I think the cause was to build themselves their own personal Disneyland. Bottom line is by definition they are a non-profit.

Jeez Stu,
Have a heart. He hasn't said anything about a reach-around, YET.
Jon

[musketjon]

BTW,
What ever happened to Philippe?
Jon

[Punch The Clown]

I think the cmp forum is a source of a lot of anger and resentment. It is there as a sales tool to pique interest in their wares. The cmp doesn't really care about how angry the serfs get when they throw an orgy for the inner circle gca guys. The pillaging of Anniston created millions in sales as every piece of loot was described and depicted on the forum along with details on the pricing.
The cmp doesn't present as an altruistic non-profit do gooder organization which obviously pisses some people (Eric) off, but If you check on the compensation packages CEO's and their underbosses for all the major non-profit charities get you will never donate again.

[Punch The Clown]

Jeez Stu,
Have a heart. He hasn't said anything about a reach-around, YET.
Jon

Wow Jon, I forgot about that one. That comment got me banned for 1 month but they extended it to 3. The "feathering the nest" one got me banned for life without parole.

[ordmm]

I'm just a stupid trash collector and well know a 501 (C) (3) corporations can turn a profit. You better go back to school.


Kind of like a George Carlin routine.....The Gov't creates a NON-PROFIT tax classification that can MAKE A PROFIT. WTF.

[cuppednlocked]

I'm just a stupid trash collector and well know a 501 (C) (3) corporations can turn a profit. You better go back to school.

Orlando from the top rope...

[stratochief]

I'm just a stupid trash collector and well know a 501 (C) (3) corporations can turn a profit. You better go back to school.

Don't feed the trolls.

[MrTwistedFock]

How about this? The CMP is full of dodo In 2009 was the CMP full of dodo? I dont think so. But they've changed. Non profit corporation on paper only. Technically yeah, they obviously file with the Alabama Secretary of State's office as a non profit. But they should be filing as a for profit, instead.

Aint nothing wrong with making a ton of money, hell I love money. But I believe if you are gonna be in the for profit business, you should file for profit.

And I am no serf.


I think the cmp forum is a source of a lot of anger and resentment. It is there as a sales tool to pique interest in their wares. The cmp doesn't really care about how angry the serfs get when they throw an orgy for the inner circle gca guys. The pillaging of Anniston created millions in sales as every piece of loot was described and depicted on the forum along with details on the pricing.
The cmp doesn't present as an altruistic non-profit do gooder organization which obviously pisses some people (Eric) off, but If you check on the compensation packages CEO's and their underbosses for all the major non-profit charities get you will never donate again.

[Orlando]

Keep the profanity out of the post or take it to the war room

[musketjon]

Wow Jon, I forgot about that one. That comment got me banned for 1 month but they extended it to 3. The "feathering the nest" one got me banned for life without parole.

At least you got a one-time pardon. Back in February I called some body out for admitting to buying rifles from the CMP for the strict intention of reselling them and got banned. No warning, no time-out, just banned, that quick. The homies at the CMP don't want anyone to know what goes on behind closed doors. What happens at the CMP stays at the CMP, or so they hope.
Jon

[Retiredpara]

Not For Profit has nothing to do with fees charged for services, and we all have a choice whether or not to support CMP.

[jason60chev]

I don't think that the CMP is the "final authority" on anything with the M1 Garand. if you live near one or can travel, there are a handful of Summer training classes on various gunsmithing topics at gunsmithing trade schools. You can take a s ingle class or several. There are courses on M1 Garand maintenace. There are also M1 Garand armorer courses available on DVD from the Gunsmithing institute. The onlt thing that these school or the CMP facility has that you do not are all of the tools, jigs and fixtures. For adjusting sights, there is a great training video from 1943 that goes into that, as well as many other good video instruction on Youtube and Google search. Sure, often you have to weed through bad stuff to find good stuff. Now, if you are talking about machining the parts and how the detents were calculated and such, well,m that is more beyond the scope of just about anyone, except for maybe Julian Hatcher. Can understand your wanting to go through the CMP instruction. Only advice i can offer is that they aren;t going to change their price and if you REALLY, REALLY want to take the course, then just pay the price and do it. If you want to lead a campaign to have the lower the price for the benefit of others that follow, then that could be your personal contribution.

[jason60chev]

What if a non-profit's expenses increase....IDK....electricity, facility maintenance, employee salary, etc, etc.......are they not allowed to raise prices or what not to cover those expenses? Just curious. I took Business Law in college, but it dealt mostly with contracts.

[stratochief]

How about this? The CMP is full of dodo In 2009 was the CMP full of dodo? I dont think so. But they've changed. Non profit corporation on paper only. Technically yeah, they obviously file with the Alabama Secretary of State's office as a non profit. But they should be filing as a for profit, instead.

Aint nothing wrong with making a ton of money, hell I love money. But I believe if you are gonna be in the for profit business, you should file for profit.

And I am no serf.

You haven't the slightest clue how a non-profit works.

[Punch The Clown]

Non profit, not for profit, it does get sort of confusing. I do understand that folks get a little peeved when they see the COO, his wife, and the minions pulling down a nice salary. On the other hand I'm sure Orest would have been pulling down a nice salary in the private sector. Building Orestland when so many people have to shoot at low tech abandoned quarries annoyed a few folks no doubt. I've read the reports on Orestland. Some patrons have reported being the only person shooting. For what that theme park cost they could have built a couple of hundred nice, clean, safe ranges for everyone to use. None of this, however, has anything to do with the cmp's tax status.

[cuppednlocked]

Thread resurrection.

It’s ALIVE!!!

[Bob W]

I don't know why (after all my years on the planet it shouldn't) but it continues to amaze me how many times you can swat a puppy and it will go back and pee in the same place. And then still look at you seeking approval.
And seemingly forget entirely that you swatted it just yesterday.

[canes7]

I don't know why (after all my years on the planet it shouldn't) but it continues to amaze me how many times you can swat a puppy and it will go back and pee in the same place. And then still look at you seeking approval.
And seemingly forget entirely that you swatted it just yesterday.

Short memories.

[Shug]

I don't know why (after all my years on the planet it shouldn't) but it continues to amaze me how many times you can swat a puppy and it will go back and pee in the same place. And then still look at you seeking approval.
And seemingly forget entirely that you swatted it just yesterday.

It's actually trying to train you to allow it to pee there, and is showing its patience with you by doing so..