Who would win? M14 /M1a or Bm59

[medman]

I think know what the answer is going to be... But I'm looking more for the play by play... The "bullet points" as it were. I know there is a ton of knowledge in this forum!
I've seen many points made in several threads, but nothing consolidated.
So who would win and more importantly ... Why?

Thanks in advance!

[musketjon]

Who would win WHAT? It's an open ended question.
Jon

[medman]

The US Open... Obviously! (Sarcasm)

Yes the question was open ended... I'm looking for thoughts about which is "over all" the superior rifle. (Which is also an open ended question). Opinions supported by thoughtful fact are what I'm looking for.

[seaninmich]

I've never liked the M14/M1a, so the answer is easy, for me...

[Eli]

The M14 was designed by committee, and had the shortest standard-issue service life on any US rifle. It was an unprecedented failure, despite what the fanboys will tell you - grossly excessive failures in the field, usually associated with the front sight & flash hider; followed by failures of that stupid (and unnecessary) bolt roller.
The BM59, on the other hand, was the result of low-budget ingenuity and excellent engineering.
Both rifles were roughly designed to do the same thing, but the BM59 actually saw adoption as standard outside of it's native country - the M14 was only adopted where it was given as far as I know, while people paid for the BM59! The BM59 may still be available new as the Pindad SP-1, made in Indonesia of all places - under Beretta license!

Eli

[Shug]

The M14 was designed by committee, and had the shortest standard-issue service life on any US rifle.
Eli

I thought that honor went to the 1866 Allin Conversion Springfield Muskets (1866-1868), being replaced by the 45/70 Trapdoor Springfield...But point taken.

[musketjon]

I thought that honor went to the 1866 Allin Conversion Springfield Muskets (1866-1868), being replaced by the 45/70 Trapdoor Springfield...But point taken.
Didn't the 50/70 come before the 45/70?
Jon

[flying2275]

Didn't the 50/70 come before the 45/70?
Jon

In the 1866 Allin conversion they relined the .58 cal barrels for the 50-70. The 1868 and 1870 Trapdoors had new made barrels also in 50-70 and also had a separate receiver unlike the conversions. In the 1873 model they went with the 45-70 cartridge.

Essentially the 50/70 cal Trapdoor was in production for 7 years but the Allin conversion was only done for 2 years.

[Prince Humperdink]

I hate to say it,but I think the BM-59 is BM-Butt ugly.I hate their stocks,and gas systems(looks wise).I love the M1 greatly,but that gas system CAN be a weak link if you have to use non mil spec ammo and the 8 shot capacity can be a limiting factor,and the M1A does have it's problems.If All things were equal,and 3 different guys were shooting at each other from within 600 yards then I think the best shot would win and could be any until the M1 fired all 8 shots,then it's to the 59 and the 14...go out even farther and I'd say the guy with a 30-06 has the advantage.

[seaninmich]

I hate to say it,but I think the BM-59 is BM-Butt ugly.I hate their stocks,and gas systems(looks wise).

we go way back, so I'm gonna give you a chance to that back

[flying2275]

i hate to say it,but i think the bm-59 is bm-butt ugly.i hate their stocks,and gas systems(looks wise).i love the m1 greatly,but that gas system can be a weak link if you have to use non mil spec ammo and the 8 shot capacity can be a limiting factor,and the m1a does have it's problems.if all things were equal,and 3 different guys were shooting at each other from within 600 yards then i think the best shot would win and could be any until the m1 fired all 8 shots,then it's to the 59 and the 14...go out even farther and i'd say the guy with a 30-06 has the advantage.

burn the witch!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[canes7]

I agree with Humpi... That damn things are ugly. But For me looks are kinda down far on the list of criteria. I have no experience with the BM59 other than looking at it, so I can't say with any authority about how they function and reliability. However the M14 is a rifle that I have a bit of experience with. I know mine has been 10% reliable and I can accurately shoot it to 1000 yards. I know I can put my 1st shot on a man sized target at 1k, cold bore. Can a BM59 do that? I don't know. how often do you have to clean a BM59 to keep it functional? Parts breakage and replacement parts availability? Those are all things that would have to factor in before looks.

[Punch The Clown]

I added a poll. Why not? It's free.

[toolman]

Isn't THE M1A still in use in military?

[toolman]

I must agree bm59 is fugly... Peace toolman

[seaninmich]

Isn't THE M1A still in use in military?

No, but the M14 is

[Old Guard]

No, but the M14 is

Yes, If you checked your local police dept, you just might find out they got the issued m-14 rifles for the value of $136.99 each from surplus..I personally saw one from our little hobekenly small town, with the auto fire selector intact...They might have 6 cops there..The city of Covington, tn. got at least 6 and maybe as many as TEN..7.62 auto rifles, The sad part is many of these fine rifles are being lost at the local police depts..Wonder where they will turn up next..Oh, they also picked up .38 revolvers and .45 1911 a1 pistols, that so many are lamenting lately..OG.

[Eli]

Yes, If you checked your local police dept, you just might find out they got the issued m-14 rifles for the value of $136.99 each from surplus..I personally saw one from our little hobekenly small town, with the auto fire selector intact...They might have 6 cops there..The city of Covington, tn. got at least 6 and maybe as many as TEN..7.62 auto rifles, The sad part is many of these fine rifles are being lost at the local police depts..Wonder where they will turn up next..Oh, they also picked up .38 revolvers and .45 1911 a1 pistols, that so many are lamenting lately..OG.

The Feds have been recalling these guns for several years now. It seems Slick Willie sent far too many to Lithuania (and other countries) in the '90s to keep them from the DCM/CMP, and now there isn't enough to cover military needs. They're being forcibly replaced with M16s from what I understand.

Eli

[koreanwargrandson]

Story goes Bob McNamara hated the m14 so much he had 700,000 of them chop sawed before his tenure as Secretary of Defense ended. Clinton chopped or gave away most of the remaining stock. Bula Defense in Ohio has now tooled up to build new recievers and parts for Dod contract, or so I've heard.

[Eli]

Story goes Bob McNamara hated the m14 so much he had 700,000 of them chop sawed before his tenure as Secretary of Defense ended. Clinton chopped or gave away most of the remaining stock. Bula Defense in Ohio has now tooled up to build new recievers and parts for Dod contract, or so I've heard.

The M14 really is a POS. They took everything good about the Garand and removed it, and made a failure-prone obsolete anti-aircraft gun out of a rather good battle rifle - while on an unlimited budget. Th Italians, on the other hand, turned a good battle rifle into a great heavy assault rifle on a shoestring budget!
I've heard a lot of good things about Bula, they seem to have their stuff together and actually produce product. Of course, they've been around several decades - longer than I've been alive - so they probably know a thing or few about making quality product.
http://www.bulaforge.com/ & http://buladefense.com/

Eli

[Flyer]

If the government hadn't stupidly banned the import of Norinco M14s, the low price of entry would have enticed me.

Since they did, the Garand being very available gets my vote. The Italians are cool but seem like a much more difficult project for me because I would need to convert a Garand receiver since my state has banned most of them by name.

Weird reasoning but the things that an M1A is better at I have ARs for.