Hi, what is with the Winchester hate?

[Flyer]

I have a Danish parts kit and a well worn Winchester receiver and I want to put them together.

I got both cheap, the kit was bought from an estate, evidently at original cost from the 90s or early 00s. I haven't cleaned out the barrel yet but I think it might be an unissued VAR barrel that was built, racked and then demilled. The receiver was also cheap because it was missing about 90% of its finish and has some fairly pronounced machining marks.

There were other more expensive receiver choices when I was buying, including some nice Italians which would have made a convincing Danish Garand but I grew up down the street from the Winchester Mystery House and I need a Winchester rifle in case of zombie apocalypse. I'm not really in to lever actions or hunting style bolt actions so the Garand is perfect.

I never looked in to Garand Building, I thought it was more involved than a FAL but looking now it seems like with a little luck my headspace will be OK and all I need is a barrel vise and receiver wrench to screw it together.

I think I will try to make a receiver wrench with an oak wood insert to protect the exposed portions of the receiver. I think I can make a simple barrel vise too. That should be far less expensive than buying.

It looks like my barrel gets hand tight about 20° from straight up so it looks like my shoulder is where it needs to be. I'm taking that as a sign that my headspace might be close.

I'm going to do more testing to measure the distance from the end of the bolt to the barrel shoulder with a go gauge in the chamber and the distance from the end of the bolt to the front of the receiver. That should tell me if my headspace will be too loose. If the headspace looks tight, I will look at mildly lapping the bolt and reaming the chamber.

One thing I need to do is disassemble the bolt. That looks like a pain. Is there an easy way?

Any way, I know my Winchester looks rough but it's a battle rifle, what's the big deal? I have seen people mention that Winchester's can command a slight price premium over a Springfield which scarcity might explain but they aren't that scarce. It seems like maybe it's just some good natured ribbing over the rough finish that Winchester's have compared to a Beretta or something.

All I know is that I expect to have a very ruggedly handsome Garand after I get it refinished and with the VAR barrel it should be a shooter too.

[Eli]

It's easy, I assembled my BM59SL in under 2 hours. Choice of tools is up to you, I'll let others chime in.

Eli

[Flyer]

Hi, is every post moderated or can I get approved?

I'm not a spammer.

[jak]

One thing I need to do is disassemble the bolt. That looks like a pain. Is there an easy way?



http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/striphtml/detailstripboltgroup.html

http://www.civilianmarksmanship.com/assemblyhtml/reassembleboltgroup.html

[Eli]

Hi, is every post moderated or can I get approved?

I'm not a spammer.

I approved the first, I usually approve them. I'm not sure what it takes for the software to accept you as real.

Eli

[Prince Humperdink]

I love the rough,"ugly"Winchesters over all others.I don't need smooth,and "pretty".

[Flyer]

OK, today I will go to the local surplus store that seems to keep some USGI odds and ends to see if they have a combo tool.

[musketjon]

The ONLY tool needed for bolt disassembly is a large, flat blade screwdriver.
Jon

[Flyer]

So, I got the barrel bore and chamber cleaned out. It looks nearly pristine, nice and shiny, no pitting.

I had a set of metric plug gauges (don't ask) and the 7.62mm (0.30000") passed easily. 7.63mm (0.30039") would not go in at the chamber end. It would go in about 1/2" at the muzzle.

Looking at the muzzle, it looks like something was in there scraping the lands and a few spots in the grooves. The scraping is light and I don't think it is bad. If it doesn't shoot up to my high expectations, I might get a recessed crown but I'll have to shoot it first.

Next I disassembled my bolt and cleaned the bolt face. Thanks for the screwdriver tip, it worked perfectly.

Now with a set of digital calipers, the distance from the barrel shoulder to the end of the bolt was 4.329", 4.340" and 3.347" with an empty chamber, go gauge and no-go gauge. That was measured with the depth gauge portion of the calipers. With the bolt inserted in the receiver and held back against the lugs, the distance from the back of the bolt to the front of the receiver was 4.336". That was measured by the main jaws of the caliper.

There might be measurement error there because I was measuring with different parts of the caliper but that suggests that once I torque the barrel in to the receiver, I should be 0.004" short of closing on a go. If I lap the bolt maybe 0.001" until the contact is equalized, I should still have a few thou to cut with a chamber reamer.

So the course of action is to make a receiver wrench and then decide if I should buy barrel vise inserts or make a Garand only barrel vise. I'll torque on the barrel, check headspace, lap the bolt, check headspace and ream the chamber if necessary and then send it off to get re-parkerized.

I wonder if anyone has measured how much a Garand barrel stretches from torquing in to the receiver?

Mine is about 20-25° away from vertical when hand tight. If it was a FAL I would think it is perfect.

I might be buying a pull through chamber reamer unless the barrel stretches just right to headspace.

[Orlando]

A large cresent wrench will work for a receiver wrench. I used one several times befroe I had a real wrench made

[Flyer]

I did a search for Garand barrel stretch and found one mention of 0.004" so if that is true and my measurements are correct, I could nail the headspace at minimum by pure luck.

Since it seems like the kit has had a long cosmoline nap, I'm going to do a detail strip and hit everything with solvent and a scrub brush to get it ready to wake up.

[Flyer]

For some reason my posts don't seem to be showing up but I'll try again:

I have cleaned and measured the barrel, bolt and receiver. It looks like if it doesn't headspace, it will be short somewhere around 0.004" but I hear barrel stretch from torquing can be 0.004" so it might be perfect. That was measured with a Forster gauge set, not Clymer unfortunately.

I might need to ream it, otherwise it looks really good except some light scoring of the muzzle. The muzzle will take about 1/2" of a 0.30039" gauge (7.63mm), 0.300 passes through the whole barrel and 0.30079" won't get past the crown. I don't know how that translates to TE/ME numbers but my guess is that it is less than 1/1. Beside the muzzle the bore looks perfect to my eye, nice and shiny with no pitting.

I have decided to torque it on with a set of home made barreling tools.

Since the barrel looks so nice and I want an accurate rifle, I am going to try to do the NM modifications. I have read the rear ring of the gas cylinder gets opened up to 0.676" and looking through the reamers that I can get my hands on, there is a 17mm which is 0.669" so close enough for me. I have seen some pictures of the rear lug modification, I'll wait to see which looks easier before I decide which cut to do.

After that is done I will peen the barrel flutes and torque the barrel in. Once I get the Op rod running true and the gas cylinder free floating and tight on the flutes, I will send it to Shuff.

There is one more thing, I have to get the heel roll mark deepened so the Winchester doesn't get blurred out by the pre-park sand blasting. I think I have found a local engraver who has an FFL even.

After that, I have a new stock that will need some inletting so I will glass bed it (McCoy style) and finish it.

Then we come to the National Match unitized handguard. Does anyone have a reference of exactly what and how it is done? I have seen some pictures but I'm missing something. The mod seems to be done to prevent contact between the lower handguard and the gas cylinder but I don't see what keeps the handguard from moving forward to hit it.

A picture is worth a thousand words but I am having a hard time finding National Match Garand pictures that show how the NM conversion was done.

If you have a Garand with NM modifications, please share pictures and if possible post pictures of standard parts from the same angle.

[timshufflin]

Hi, is every post moderated or can I get approved?

I'm not a spammer.

It was moderated because I never got to approving your membership. You're all set now.

[timshufflin]

For some reason my posts don't seem to be showing up but I'll try again:

I have cleaned and measured the barrel, bolt and receiver. It looks like if it doesn't headspace, it will be short somewhere around 0.004" but I hear barrel stretch from torquing can be 0.004" so it might be perfect. That was measured with a Forster gauge set, not Clymer unfortunately.

I might need to ream it, otherwise it looks really good except some light scoring of the muzzle. The muzzle will take about 1/2" of a 0.30039" gauge (7.63mm), 0.300 passes through the whole barrel and 0.30079" won't get past the crown. I don't know how that translates to TE/ME numbers but my guess is that it is less than 1/1. Beside the muzzle the bore looks perfect to my eye, nice and shiny with no pitting.

I have decided to torque it on with a set of home made barreling tools.

Since the barrel looks so nice and I want an accurate rifle, I am going to try to do the NM modifications. I have read the rear ring of the gas cylinder gets opened up to 0.676" and looking through the reamers that I can get my hands on, there is a 17mm which is 0.669" so close enough for me. I have seen some pictures of the rear lug modification, I'll wait to see which looks easier before I decide which cut to do.

After that is done I will peen the barrel flutes and torque the barrel in. Once I get the Op rod running true and the gas cylinder free floating and tight on the flutes, I will send it to Shuff.

There is one more thing, I have to get the heel roll mark deepened so the Winchester doesn't get blurred out by the pre-park sand blasting. I think I have found a local engraver who has an FFL even.

After that, I have a new stock that will need some inletting so I will glass bed it (McCoy style) and finish it.

Then we come to the National Match unitized handguard. Does anyone have a reference of exactly what and how it is done? I have seen some pictures but I'm missing something. The mod seems to be done to prevent contact between the lower handguard and the gas cylinder but I don't see what keeps the handguard from moving forward to hit it.

A picture is worth a thousand words but I am having a hard time finding National Match Garand pictures that show how the NM conversion was done.

If you have a Garand with NM modifications, please share pictures and if possible post pictures of standard parts from the same angle. Let's see your current heel stamp. Chances are there's nothing to worry about but WRA receivers are kind of famous for light heel marks.

[Flyer]

It looks like I'm validated, let's see if this post works.

I cleaned the barrel and checked it with plug gauges. A 0.300" (7.62mm) slides through the whole barrel, 0.30039" (7.63mm) won't enter the throat but will go in about 1/2" at the muzzle where there is some very light scoring on the lands and a few spots of scoring in the grooves, 0.30079" (7.64mm) will not get past the crown. I'm not sure how that relates to TE/ME gauging but my guess is it is better than 1/1. Beside the scoring at the muzzle, the bore looks shiny and pristine, no pitting or roughness.

Next I stripped and cleaned my bolt face and measured with a digital caliper from the back of the bolt to the barrel shoulder, 4.329", 4.340" and 4.347" with an empty chamber, Forster GO and Forster NO-GO. With the bolt in the receiver and held back against the lugs, the distance from the front of the receiver to the back of the bolt is 4.336". There could be some measurement error between the main jaw measurement and depth measurement of the caliper but it suggests that if I screw it together I should be about 0.004" short of headspace but looking on the internet I saw one mention of a Garand barrel stretching 0.004" when torqued so it might be perfect. Clymer gauges are preferred, so there is whatever difference that makes also.

The Winchester roll mark on the heel is a little light so I think I have found a local engraver with an FFL to deepen it so the pre-park sand blasting doesn't wash it out.

Since the barrel looks really nice and I want an accurate rifle, I'm going to try to do all the National Match mods. The first one has to be the gas cylinder before I get it refinished so I have to ream out the rear ring. I have read that they were reamed to 0.676" and I found that I have access to a 17mm reamer which is 0.669, close enough for me. I have seen a couple pictures of the rear lug modification so I'll have to see which is easier and which will work best in my rifle.

I have a new stock that I will do McCoy style bedding on after Shuff parks my stuff.

I am a bit confused by the National Match handguard mod. I can't seem to figure out exactly what it is supposed to accomplish. I know it is not supposed to contact the gas cylinder but I can't figure out how it is supposed to hold itself back. If anyone can explain or share pictures of what it looks like and where the glue is applied, I would appreciate it.

Thanks.

[Flyer]

Reading up on the CMP rules, it sounds like I can do an as issued match with the NM gas cylinder mod but not with any bedding or the handguard mod.

Maybe a very careful inletting my new stock and careful assembly of a standard handguard is the way to go. I'll try that first.

[Flyer]

I think I have a plan for making a cheap barrel vise. I think the receiver wrench should be pretty easy, I just need to find a nice piece of scrap tube that matches one of my holesaws, then carve up some oak for a soft jaw and do a little welding. I found some plans for a barrel timing gauge, that should be a quick project.

That should be all I need beside possibly a chamber reamer.

Hopefully I can knock it all out and the NM gas cylinder mod in one night at the shop.

I got the barrel disassembled and discovered that I'm missing a rear handguard retainer pin. Now I need to detail strip the trigger assembly and degrease everything so it is ready for park.

I guess I will need to go over everything with a fine tooth comb for CMP match legal "careful assembly".

So far everything is looking very good, as good as I could expect really.

The only detail I'm debating is the stock. My parts kit stock fits kind of loose, not good for a match. My new stock is hiding somewhere, hopefully it is tighter but if I glass bed it like I want, that would bump the rifle out of "as issued" matches. Should I bed the parts kit stock to tighten it up and try to get the new stock tight without bedding to make it "as issued" legal? Should I do some variation of that with a Boyd's stock thrown in for good measure?

By the way, my new stock is actually a prototype made by a company that decided they couldn't compete with Boyd's on price. It is a little special but I might be the only one who knows or cares...

[Punch The Clown]

99% of the time used components will headspace fine. We're interested in field gauge on a used rifle, not no-go.

[Flyer]

For a basic shooter, yes. I'm hoping for more but I'm going to let the assembled condition dictate how far I try to take it.

It looks like my headspace will be short and need reaming which would be the best possible outcome for accuracy.

If the barrel stretches to the point that it headspaced without reaming, that is great too.

If it will close on a NO-GO when properly timed, I will probably pull it and order a Criterion instead of try to use it.

Luckily I'm in to this rifle cheap enough that I can absorb the price of a new barrel and reamer and still wind up with a Garand that is worth more than I have in it.

[Flyer]

I got the parts kit detail stripped for the most part. I have one sling swivel screw that doesn't want to come out and the front sight screw seems to be wallowed out so I haven't tried to take it out yet.

The follower and rear sight pieces don't seem to easily separate in to single pieces, how far do I have to go to get them ready to park?

Is there any reasonably priced solvent that I can soak my small parts in to remove grease and cosmoline?

I'm thinking I'll use WD40 or Break Free CLP to protect the metal from surface rust before I send it all to Shuff. Is that OK or do I need to remove that before I send it in?

[Flyer]

It seems like low odor mineral spirits is the solvent of choice so I paid $15 for a gallon. That hurt a bit. I would like it a lot more if I could get a safe high powered solvent for less than $6/gallon.

Maybe I'll start a new Thanksgiving tradition of degreasing surplus rifles.

[Flyer]

Parts are degreased.

I tried to disassemble everything but a few pieces would not come undone.

The stock metal seems to have its sling swivel screw staked so it can't come out.

I still need to clean out the bores of the gas cylinder but it and all the other small parts are taking a bath in mineral spirits now.

I'll remove them and oil them to prevent rust in a few hours.

Most of the pieces have good original finish except for the receiver but being a Danish kit made up of Springfield, Breda, Beretta, VAR, Winchester and unmarked, things don't really match.

There is only one thing I'm not sure about, is there any way to remove the front handguard stock metal for refinishing?

Beside the staked sling swivel screw, I didn't find much hidden under the grease and grime.

If I can find my digital angle finder, I'll hand tighten my barrel to see how far it is from timing. With everything cleaned out I should get a very accurate reading.

[Flyer]

All of the mineral spirits have been removed and I reassembled everything beside the stock metal.

I didn't lose anything. I count that as an accomplishment because there are a lot of little parts when you break it down as far as it will go.

Remembering how everything goes together was another accomplishment.

Now I just have to get a free night at the shop to knock out a barrel vise, receiver wrench and do the NM gas cylinder mod.

[jak]

Personally, I would shoot the rifle first and check the accuracy before making any NM modifications.
That way you have a starting point and would know if your changes made the accuracy better or worse.

[Flyer]

Unfortunately the machine shop I have access to is 50 miles away and not exactly gun friendly so when I say get it done in one night, I mean the middle of the night.

The NM gas cylinder mod is the only mod I'll make before I build it up and it's not that big of a change, it just opens up the rear ring and clearances the rear lug so it free floats. It's not supposed to be a press fit so it's not much of a change. But the gas cylinder is stainless so the finish on it is not park, any mods that have to be done need to happen before I get everything refinished.

I don't want to do another 100 mile round trip and stay up all night just for that.

[Flyer]

One reason for building this rifle is that my dad served in the military and the only real interest he shows in guns or shooting is the M14 he used in basic training.

He is retired now and I think he could use a new hobby. If it is something we can do together, even better.

I forget who said it but "only accurate rifles are interesting", I want this Garand to be as interesting as possible.

One other thing about that is that my father has pretty poor vision, one eye sees up close, one sees distance and he is having trouble focusing up close. I think that eye strain has made close focus more difficult for me also.

I'm thinking of getting a MISO sight and a hooded NM style aperture.

If anyone has experience with these, let me know. I want to do a 1/2 MOA sight, I'm not quite sure about everything I need to order and then there is the question of front post thickness and aperture diameter.

Most of the shooting will be on sunny days from a shaded bench, 100 yards but possibly out to 1,000 yards on occasion.

[Punch The Clown]

Flyer, the peep sight on the Garand is a natural vision enhancer. Like any other rifle tell Dad to just look through the rear aperture and focus on the front sight blade. That'll be sharp, and the target will be a little fuzzy. He'll be fine.
You don't need a 1/2 moa sight on a Garand as it exceeds the accuracy of both the rifle and the shooter in 99% of all cases.

[Flyer]

I am the 1%.

[Flyer]

The engraver I found is still not answering the phone, no answering machine, no outgoing message and no website. I kind of understand because it's an old school hand engraver, I expect he has a VCR flashing 12:00 at home. It still kind of sucks because I have to drive over there to see if there is a vacation sign posted.

Other than that, I'm planning my machine shop trip which might result in an assembled Garand.

[Flyer]

I just ordered a new in wrap USGI M1950 parachute case for the Garand, evidently made in the year 2000.

It's a bit more padded than the WWII style canvas bags but still USGI so fitting for a nice "surplus" Garand.

No plastic case or Chinese nylon for my Garand.

It was $60 shipped so not cheap but a fleece lined IMA reproduction of a WWII style bag is probably $40 shipped and maybe not as nice as the parachute bag. It just seems right.

[Flyer]

I got the case, it is pretty cool and has a kind of quick detach latch on it. Very heavy duty. Not padded as much as I would like but the military doesn't care about a ding in the stock from a rough landing.

With normal use and a bit of careful handling I'm sure it will keep a Garand in pristine condition.

I am pleased and think the price was more than fair.

[Flyer]

Well it turns out the engraver isn't answering the phone because he seems to have retired off to Louisiana and not bothered to tell anyone beside his partner who just does watch repair.

Back to square 1 finding an engraver...

[timshufflin]

Well it turns out the engraver isn't answering the phone because he seems to have retired off to Louisiana and not bothered to tell anyone beside his partner who just does watch repair.

Back to square 1 finding an engraver... Which engraver?

[Flyer]

European Hand Engraver, Gerald something.

The only hand engraver around here and with an FFL, now I have to travel or ship it off somewhere and hope it gets done right without seeing any example work.