broken receiver...

[chaindrive]

hello all,

first, this is a great website and i'm proud to be a part of it.

the other day i was out shooting my inland carbine and noticed that the mag well seemed kind of loose and the cartridges weren't feeding smoothly into the chamber. i took a closer look and saw that the lug on the bottom of the receiver where the pin goes in to hold the trigger housing group was broke clean off.

bugger!

not only that, but it cracked the stock directly in front of the area where the lug butts up against the stock. very expensive day at the range!

i'm new to the carbine world and have to ask if this is a common problem.
i was shooting my own reloads and absolutely trust my work. everything i do is double checked. i was using 14.8 grs. of hodgdon H 110 powder (close to, but not the max load) with hornady 110 gr fmj bullets.
all i can think of is metal fatigue. everything on the rifle was properly tightened down.

has anyone ever heard of this happening?

thanks.

[Punch The Clown]

Welcome Chaindrive. As far as I know you can't double-charge a carbine case so that's out. I'm at a loss on this one. Stu

[Orlando]

Nope never heard of it being a issue before
Welcome to the forum

[Prince Humperdink]

I agree with the others about double charge,as I use 14 grns of powder and the bullet darn near,or does sit on it..btw,Welcome to the forum!
Ryan

[timshufflin]

Chaindrive, I've been researching broken carbine receivers ever since you told me about this one. I found this just now http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=1009135

It seems that these things can develop stress cracks. You have a photo of where yours broke? I'd like to see how jagged, or smooth, the block broke.

[chaindrive]

yeah, i think we can eliminate the double charge possibility.

i use an RCBS chargemaster and then use a Redding balance beam to verify each charge. if it's a little above or below i trickle in the appropriate amount or remove the overage. then i look down at each case with a flash light to check the level while they are still in the loading tray before seating the bullet. slow but sure.

anyway, looks like i'm down for a while. damn shame. of all my long guns, i enjoy shooting that little carbine the most...

[chaindrive]

tim,

tell you what, i'll just send you the broken piece so that you can get an idea of the way it broke.

when i can get a replacement receiver i'll send you the rest of the rifle so that you work your magic on it.

he's done work for me before folks, nobody touches my weapons but him...

[timshufflin]

tim,

tell you what, i'll just send you the broken piece so that you can get an idea of the way it broke.

when i can get a replacement receiver i'll send you the rest of the rifle so that you work your magic on it.

he's done work for me before folks, nobody touches my weapons but him...


Chain, I'd really really love to see a photo even if you email it to me.

[mixmaster]

Very unusual! The first time I saw one do that was when some mentally challenged alleged gunsmith took one out and ran a couple of mags full of proof loads. Also when re barreling one some idiots would hammer the lug to "tighten" it for the trigger housing.You might have noticed peen marks where this was done.As far as your loads are concerned I think you were well into the safe envelope of operation. Oh and welcome to our forum you should find it interesting and informative. Lots of good knowledge hiding in the bushs here!
Mix

[timshufflin]

That's a great point mixmaster! Are there any peen marks on the block? I know the history of this receiver and it could have been "tightened up" for the trigger housing. Never thought of that one mixmaster.

[chaindrive]

guys,

there aren't any peen marks on the block, it looks clean. likewise the ears on the trigger housing where the pin goes through. i don't think anyone ever took a hammer it to "improve" the fit.

tim - be on the lookout for a picture via e-mail.
my computer fu is weak. the best i can do is a cell phone pic.

[chaindrive]

oops - dupe post, ignore

[mixmaster]

There is not enough recoil transmitted through that block, so my thoughts are than something happened to cause it to snap. if you look at a carbine you will see the receiver transmits the recoil impulse through the lug on the back where it hooks into the stock and of course the barrel band in the front The lug that broke is only to hold the trigger housing in place. I would mike the top of that lug and just above the break. When I said peen I did not explain that one good smack with a hammer on the top of the lug sometimes would be enough. Some times the lug was used to lock the receiver in a vise while the barrel wrench was used to remove the barrel. All of this is not really helping you restore it.Sorry I could not be more help.
Mix

[Tuna]

With a carbine it's the barrel that gets locked in a vice and the receiver gets the wrench to take off or put on a barrel. As to the lug coming off. It's a rare thing but it has happened in the past. But the good news is that most of the time it can be welded back on.

[mixmaster]

Tuna
Not all of us are as mentally adept as we would like to think. Bubba is loose and well. I have seen more than one individual use the receiver as the stationary part in re barreling. And a wrench on the barrel flats. Yes the part may be welded But I advise the barrel be removed and in place of it a heat sink to keep the receiver from getting to hot. You can use an old barrel stub for this purpose.or even the entire barrel. The heat sink does not have to be tightened up with a wrench just firm hand tight will do.I have only seen two lugs break off and both could be traced to abuse. Not common at all!!!
Mix

[timshufflin]

Every vise designed for the carbine, I know of, has the barrel stationary and the receiver in an action wrench to be turned. I guess someone could vise up a receiver and hook big #$$ wrench on the barrel but that would be a VERY bubba way to go.

[mixmaster]

Tim you are talking common sense. Yet I am sure you have seen Bubba at work or the results of it. You and I would use tools designed for the receiver,but in Bubbas case a bench vise works for him and the big wrench! I have seen them twist the barrel where the gas port no longer lines up as the gas piston was the lug used to lock the wrench on! I just shake my head and refuse to correct their efforts. I know it is hard to believe but one time a Mauser was brought to me because the primers were being punctured. When owner was questioned he advised me he had sharpened the firing pin to a point to make the rifle "shoot harder" what ever that meant.I now do work only for close friends them you can cuss out! Common sense is not that common.
Mix

[chaindrive]

thanks for the replies. there's a lot good information in this thread.

i talked to a local guy on the phone who's a precision welder and gun owner who thinks he might be able weld the lug back on. he says there is a special rod used for welding on forged receivers.
i'll take it to him tuesday and let him look it over. i will ask him if the barrel should be removed before doing any work. i hope there is way around it after the work Tim did on installing the new criterion barrel and then re-parking the whole rifle.

anyway, i'll let you know how it turns out and y'all have a great 4th.

[chaindrive]

time to update.

picked up the receiver from the welder the other day.
he did a fine, professional job. very neatly done and squared up, every thing fits and went back together without a hitch.

took it out yesterday and put it through the paces. worked fine, no hiccups.

back in the game.
total cost: $25.00

[LEAD POISON]

I changed many rear sights with a brass hammer and punch.I broke ONE right there.
I cut it in half for paper weights.


I said DANG.

[sandsnow]

My carbine trigger housing wiggles. I've seen different methods of peening, but with my luck I'd break it.

My thought was to bed the stock around the trigger housing to keep it in place

Any thoughts?

[mixmaster]

Wiggle won't hurt anything as a lot of carbines have this problem. I have used a center punch on the T shaped end of the trigger housing and tightened them up. You use the punch on the outside edge of the T at the top. It tightens it up but I never felt I had accomplished anything as a loose trigger housing has no effect on the action and bedding sounds extreme just to get rid if the wiggle. But there you are. No hammering on the receiver and it should tighten enough to satisfy. Hope no one laughs and it helps you out.
Mix

[Tuna]

Mixmaster is correct. If you feel you just have to tighten the trigger housing then peen the trigger housing. BUT DO NOT try to peen or bang on the lugs on the receiver. They can and in many cases do break off. It's best to just live with the wiggle. It won't hurt anything.

[sandsnow]

Thanks guys

[timshufflin]

time to update.

picked up the receiver from the welder the other day.
he did a fine, professional job. very neatly done and squared up, every thing fits and went back together without a hitch.

took it out yesterday and put it through the paces. worked fine, no hiccups.

back in the game.
total cost: $25.00


Praise GOD!

[mixmaster]

Another relic saved from destruction. Glad to hear the fix worked and you are back on line with your carbine. And Tim does get a little preachy.
Mix

[chaindrive]

final note to this little saga...

Tim graciously re-parked the rifle (receiver and barrel) free of charge after the repair was made.
the welder had to grind the area where the lug had been welded, leaving bare metal.

in his own words, "can't have my stuff out there looking like crap".

thanks Tim, you are a gentleman.