New oprod springs, myopic

[timshufflin]

Saw this post today,http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=49097

I don't even know if I identified the spring in question by name. I don't know how I would know what brand a spring is. I do know that oprods pistons that just meet spec, combined with gas cylinders that just meet spec, spell trouble when combined with LC ammo. I test fire rifles when I'm done with them. I currently have LC ammo to test them with. This means that if one new spring makes a rifle run while another new spring does not, I change the spring for the customer. In fact, I believe I even give the old spring back to the customer as well as my new spring.

Myopic? One would be myopic if they can't figure out that I need rifles to run with LC as well as any other "spec" ammo put through the rifle. I would much prefer a spring made by the upset spring marketer but I can't always have my way. Of course, I actually test fire the rifles I refinish.

[BRUTUS]

I thought Anthony was a bigger ####s for this swipe: "I would suggest to this person to have his rifle inspected by a qualified armorer who would know better than to blame a "to spec" spring for the cause of malfunctioning of his rifle. Clemenza."

And why is the poster "misinformed'? Did Mighty Tony of Orion inspect the rifle BEFORE making his disclaimer?

And finally, when you're a major vendor in the industry, why hide? CLEMENZA? How about letting people know who you are? It's like kollector03 "thinning his herd" when everybody knows he's a dealer.....

I'm done.....

[paid4c4]

Jeff, I just didn't care for Tony's tone, why be a jackass when it isn't necessary? I use Tony's springs on about ever rifle I own or build simply because I like them. I don't know why he hides his identity? As far as Kollector03 it took me a few WTS posts to figure out that "thinning the heard=want to sell."
Done, also.
Bill
I guess my point is we should treat each other like gentlemen without a bad attitude which reared it's head in the original tread on CMP. This often times happen when the post goes directly into someone's pocket book.
Now maybe I'm done!

[howie]

Someone sounds a little overly defensive. Sheesh! I've got one of his springs in my CMP SA SG and it's worked fine, but who knows? Maybe this is just another pristine example of "Who are you to question ANYTHING in regards to me?!" I get really tired of crap like that.

[BRUTUS]

editted until clarification.........

[howie]

Hmm. I didn't get the impression that Bill was sticking up for Tony's post. Am I missing something?

[timshufflin]

Guys, no need to get upset about any of this stuff. I'm simply going on record that a spring can make a difference EVEN WHEN everything IS in spec when using LC. I much prefer to say that the LC is the problem but the fact is that people have the stuff and are going to shoot it. This leaves me with saying "use this other spring".

Regarding the guy who claimed to be Tony on the CMP, his comments were off putting and took a shot at me instead of the issue. Strong springs from any manufacturer can give issues with LC.

[BRUTUS]

I guess we need to find out.........

Bill-Were you referring to Tony or me?

"I just didn't care for the tone, why be a jackass when it isn't necessary?"

[Orlando]

Every Garand I have ever bought first thing I do is change the Op Rod Spring with one from Orion 7. Never had any issues with them myself. I did buy a couple a few months back and they were a different color than what I bought years ago.
For whatever that means???

[timshufflin]

Please guys, no profanity. I don't want to move this to the war room. I ask kindly for your help.

[howie]

To clarify MY statement, Tony seemed to be a little trigger happy, if that was Tony. Brute, I didn't get the impression that anyone threw lead your way, but that's just me.

[BRUTUS]

I like to think you're right Howie..........But as a "what if?" look at Bill's post as if it were directed at me.......I know internet communications lose a lot in translation, but we all don't know each other THAT well........;Confused;

[howie]

Yeah, I gotcha, but I've had a few chats with Bill, and he doesn't seem the type to go off half-cocked.

[timshufflin]

Yeah, I gotcha, but I've had a few chats with Bill, and he doesn't seem the type to go off half-cocked.


Absolutely true. One of the most level headed people I know.

[howie]

Thought you were gonna take a nap.

[timshufflin]

Thought you were gonna take a nap.


I tried, wife just told me I couldn't.

[howie]

Ahh. The Boss speaks..... I feel your pain.

[wgandy]

Since I'm just a dumb ol' ETX redneck, my way of thinking is probably really stupid. Let's say I have a rifle that won't cycle and I can get it to cycle by changing out a spring. Nope, I don't want to solve my problem with a $15-$20 spring. I want to buy a new $100 op rod or $75 gas cylinder so I can keep my "good" spring in my rifle..........NOT! :rolleyes:

[Orlando]

Just a ignorant Question:
Would you really rather fix the real problem or put a bandaid on it?

[timshufflin]

Since I'm just a dumb ol' ETX redneck, my way of thinking is probably really stupid. Let's say I have a rifle that won't cycle and I can get it to cycle by changing out a spring. Nope, I don't want to solve my problem with a $15-$20 spring. I want to buy a new $100 op rod or $75 gas cylinder so I can keep my "good" spring in my rifle..........NOT! :rolleyes:


This is really the crux of it. You said it well and you said it simply.

Orlando, what do you call an oprod piston that meets spec, a gas cylinder that meets spec, an oprod that tilts, a gas screw that seals, but the rifle won't cycle with LC? Stu has personally sent me a rifle that would not cycle with LC and everything was in spec. The rifle would not cycle with LC before it was parked and it would not cycle after it was parked.

I've read now that the reason the rifle may not cycle is because it was parked. I keep hearing all this hairbrained stuff but I don't see anyone who's ever tested their theory on this thing, well that is, except Stu or I.

The first thing to try, so you can use your precious new spring, is to back the gas lock off one turn. This commonly fixes the issue because you created a larger gas chamber for the gas to expand in. This is much like what EricC (do I have the name right?), from the cmp forum, has done with his new gas lock screw. I then found that if this didn't work you could use an in spec oprod spring of more worn vintage and take the rifle the rest of the way.

What band aid was used? You have an in spec piston, an in spec gas system, an in spec spring. Sounds in spec to me but you just have a problem with that weak LC stuff functioning that nice Orion spring with the New Umph to it.

Put HXP in the very rifles I'm talking about and there is NO problem! HXP works fine until the parts on the rifle are actually out of spec. LC is the specific ammo I'm talking about.

[timshufflin]

Now we have this Clemenza guy, who may or may not be the owner of Orion 7, saying that the Orion 7 spring should be cleaned with WD40. I would think the owner of Orion 7 might know this, yes?

Look for yourself;
Yesterday, 04:09 PM
Clemenza
Participant

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York of course!
Posts: 31
Orion Springs are NOT heavier
They are made to perfect USGI print. If your rifle does not function with one of these quality springs....I would look elsewhere for the problem.,,,usually just at spec or slightly below op piston diameters and or gas cylinder inner diameters at the first 2" of the tube.

Squeeky springs are usually the result from dry inner op tubes. Some springs have a coating from the manufacturer which is easlily removed with WD40.

Close to 70K of these springs have been sold and well known for their quality. For a rifle refinisher to blame one of our springs as the problem is quite Myopic. I just wanted to clear this up before the rumors and bad press starts as it happens so easily on the forums. Clemenza



Now lapriester is chiming in that you don't do what the possible Orion 7 owner says to do, get the "coating" off with WD40, that would be wrong. He also says that he bets the oprod won't pass the tilt test! Again, that would be wrong. I don't just send rifles back that don't pass tilt tests. You don't stay in business very long when a rifle comes to you passing the tilt test and leaves not passing it. Any customer of mine would know this, I think?

lapriester
CMP Customer

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: N California
Posts: 2,653


Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadkingtrax
I will try the WD-40 trick,...probably a 10-10 type oil or something.

They are great springs, I was not at all implying anything but to the noise.

"Squeeky springs are caused by no grease on the spring. You need to use a liberal amount of grease on the spring. Enough so it doesn't make noise when it's inserted. If you are applying only oil it will always squeek and it's life will be shortened.

The function problem is no doubt a product of the repark. Give the rifle a few hundred rounds fired and I'll wager the problem will self correct when the wear surfaces lose that rough parkerized finish. It's very common that a recently refinished Garand fails to function. In it's present state I would guess it probably won't pass a tilt test either until it's had adequate break in.

Larry"

[canes7]

Jus tlike many other CMP threads, they are making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Had he tried a different O7 spring? Out of the 70k that Tony says are out there there is probably at least one bad one. Did the user try a different op-rod or gas cylinder? I only skimmed the thread but I didn't see that there was enough done by this guy to make a true diagnosis.

[paid4c4]

I guess we need to find out.........

Bill-Were you referring to Tony or me?

"I just didn't care for the tone, why be a jackass when it isn't necessary?"

Jeff, I've clarified my post and also sent you a PM. My comments were directed towards Tony, I was agreeing with Jeff. Those who know me know that if I have something negative to say to any regular member of this forum I'll do personally using the phone or PM. This doesn't mean that all isn't fair in the War Room!

[cuppednlocked]

Ok, so we're supposed to clean the spring w/WD40 so they work correctly?

[timshufflin]

Ok, so we're supposed to clean the spring w/WD40 so they work correctly?


I think that Clemenza is saying that the Orion spring will be quieter if that is done.

To be clear, most any gun that has ever come to me will run on an Orion 7 or Wolff oprod spring if using HXP or any other "good" ammo. The problem comes when using LC. As a business, I do my level best to make sure that rifles coming to me will run on ANY ammo the customer may use. LC is a common surplus ammo amongst my customers. This means that I make an effort to have rifles run on the stuff. If a rifle is in spec, although at the bottom of spec, a new oprod spring of ANY manufacturer can cause short cycling with LC.

[BRUTUS]

FROM CMP FORUM:

dogboysdad: Why is it that the owner of a "top quality vendor for the CMP" posts under the alias "Clemenza"? Still pretending to be "Fat Pete", Tony? Maybe you should "leave the gun and take the cannoli" on this one.

I can't figure out why the owner of a company that puts out a "proven quality product" would feel the need to call Tim Sufflin "Myopic" or refer to him as an unqualified armorer. You then go on to infer that he is not knowledgeable and less than a top shelf rifle rebuilder simply because he replaced the op rod spring in the OP's rifle with a GI spring? You don't know what Shufflin did or why he did it. Shufflin never posted here and he never said anything negative about your springs.

Let your product speak for itself. Defending it in this manner is truly not effective. Nobody bashed your spring, Tony. Shufflin certainly never did. Have another cannoli and back off. You are only making yourself look like a tool.


ERIC, YOU'RE MY HERO FOR TODAY...........$auto$$clapper$

[Punch The Clown]

http://www.mamapop.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/take-the-cannoli-godfather-525x295.jpg

[Schriv]

Awesome..
I wonder how bad the fallout will be after THAT post?? Anything that even hints at less than 120% satisfaction with a CMP product or CMP supplier is met with venom. Regardless of how legitimate the gripe may be. I lurk often, but post very little over there. I don't need all the drama.
I also prefer to buy locally or build my own Garands so that I know exactly what goes in them. That seems to be frowned upon as well over there.
But hey, I do put Orion 7 springs in all of them. And I love them like I have loved no other spring before. Nothing else compares to them. Blah, blah, etc., etc., etc. :p

[Roadkingtrax]

I thought the seller was a little harsh to the guy, who may of had a badly worded question and comment about them. I also thought it was in poor taste for Clemenza to attack anyone.

I have not used many of O7 springs, due to the squeaky sounds coming from them.

LAP? Yeah...no telling that guy he is EVER wrong.

[timshufflin]

I've still never had a Canoli. I now know what a "Clemenza" is.

[Roadkingtrax]

I've still never had a Canoli. I now know what a "Clemenza" is.

Yup,...a guy that has been banned from a lot of gun shows is my understanding and also someone who charges about double what a M1 is worth.

[cannonshooter]

Timmy,
You have never had a cannoli? If you ever make it back to NYC I will take you out for one(or a dozen after youve had the first one lol) at one of my favorite places to get them, Ferrarra's on Grand street in Little Italy. Man they are slamming but not slimming to the waistline.
Mack

[cannonshooter]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clemenza

Close to 70K of these springs have been sold and well known for their quality. For a rifle refinisher to blame one of our springs as the problem is quite Myopic. I just wanted to clear this up before the rumors and bad press starts as it happens so easily on the forums. Clemenza

Sorry, but why would a person who runs a very reputable shop hide behind an alias on the forum here? I would think that if that person felt the need to defend the product that he or she sold they would do so under their real name or the shop name. Other than maybe thinking some bashing could be slipped in without being noticed, I personally think if you are going to bash someones reputation you should at least use your real name or shop name. I saw nothing in any of the posts that bashed the springs in question. Sorry but just my take on this. Besides I like cannolis and I like guns but I thought Clemenza in the movie was nothing more than a murderer who didnt deserve to have guns or cannolis.
Mack
That was my response. If you bash someone at least stand up to it. What gave it away for me was the our springs. sorry I have bought from him and use his spring in my garand but i just lost some respect for him. A man who is not accountable for his actions or words is not worth my respect.
Mack

[Dave]

Whats with the "squeaky" springs? I use Orion7 springs exclusively on my shooters and I can't hear any squeaks when I pull the trigger. All I hear is a loud BANG !
As far as working it manually, who cares if it squeaks? I grease the snot out of mine and they always run quiet by hand. If you want to hear springs squeak while shooting, shoot an AR15 or AR10. I dunno about you guys but the Orion springs make the rifle feel a lot "smoother" for me when shooting.

[timshufflin]

Whats with the "squeaky" springs? I use Orion7 springs exclusively on my shooters and I can't hear any squeaks when I pull the trigger. All I hear is a loud BANG !
As far as working it manually, who cares if it squeaks? I grease the snot out of mine and they always run quiet by hand. If you want to hear springs squeak while shooting, shoot an AR15 or AR10. I dunno about you guys but the Orion springs make the rifle feel a lot "smoother" for me when shooting.


I've heard the "squeaky" comment more than once but I couldn't agree more with the rest of your comments. I will say that Wolff springs seem to work fine for me too. The only issue I've ever had with any new spring is the firing of some rifles with LC.

[herrmann]

I've still never had a Canoli. I now know what a "Clemenza" is.

Tim, Don't eat the first one or you will look like Clemenza (and me.)

[herrmann]

Slightly OT. When the CMP was selling Danish RG LW, I bought many as project and parts guns. Several had broken springs; some as much as 7 pieces. I don't believe these were ever test-fired as they also were plugged with grease.

[canes7]

Slightly OT. When the CMP was selling Danish RG LW, I bought many as project and parts guns. Several had broken springs; some as much as 7 pieces. I don't believe these were ever test-fired as they also were plugged with grease.

Test firing is a myth. I had on SA FG delivered with a plugged barrel. I picked up one SA M1903 @ the NS once that didn't have the chamber reamed, it had a beautiful USMC barrel on it too (George grabbed it and ran it to the back). They may test some, but I would guess a very small percentage. O has come out and said the collector grades do not get test fired.

I loved the Dane RG LW's! I bought quite a few.

[timshufflin]

I fear I already have made the leap.