The Born on date thread

[Tuna]

Tim, The information in the Born on Date thread is not only out of date but contains many many errors. Anyone using it would find it is not accurate at all. The book it came from is also filled with errors and badly outdated information. Just thought you might like to know.

[timshufflin]

Tuna, I'm all ears/eyes. Give me a better set of numbers and a source and I'll post it. Thanks so much.

[Tuna]

Tim, That is part of the problem as no one has an accurate list. Most are guesses and most have outdated information. The Ruth Duff book has a list but that is also off on many of the serial number time frames but it is better then the list from Harrisons book. Research is on going and it seems that every year new information has been found that shows older information to be wrong or listed in an imporper time frame. With 10 different companies making carbines and hundreds of sub contractors making parts and some makers over running others serial numbers it can be quite confusing to say the least and that is only the tip of the iceberg when one gets into the line outs using other makers serial numbers. M1 Garands as so much easier to collect.

[timshufflin]

Tim, That is part of the problem as no one has an accurate list. Most are guesses and most have outdated information. The Ruth Duff book has a list but that is also off on many of the serial number time frames but it is better then the list from Harrisons book. Research is on going and it seems that every year new information has been found that shows older information to be wrong or listed in an imporper time frame. With 10 different companies making carbines and hundreds of sub contractors making parts and some makers over running others serial numbers it can be quite confusing to say the least and that is only the tip of the iceberg when one gets into the line outs using other makers serial numbers. M1 Garands as so much easier to collect.


Tuna, so I'm supposed to replace this list with what? If "no one has an accurate list." then I'm stuck going with a list by someone who at least made an effort at it. I think I'd rather have a general stab at what could be correct than nothing at all.

[Tuna]

Tim, That list is so far off that it would be better to have no list at all. At least people will not be getting wrong information as they will from that list.

[howie]

So, is there one list out there that's closer than the rest? If not, I'd say we're spinning our wheels.....

[timshufflin]

So, is there one list out there that's closer than the rest? If not, I'd say we're spinning our wheels.....


That's what I've been asking for from Tuna. While I appreciate someone who cares enough to set me straight, I need to know what straight is. I will leave the current data up until I'm convinced that we have better data for our members but I will put up a caveat that states "some think that this data may have inaccuracies."

I'll ask pointedly now, what are the exact inaccuracies? Where is a better list? What people, of note, believe the "better list" is better?

I want to do right by everyone but I need real data backed by facts or at least strong circumstantial evidence. Throw a dog a bone please :)

[Tuna]

Tim, The fact of the matter is there is no list that is accurate at all. Of those that are available the better of them is from the Ruth/Duff book The M1 Owner's Guide But know that this too also has errors. Even the Carbine Club doesn't have a full list that is complete and correct.

As to the list posted. Look at the ending month of production by the carbine makers. He lists seven of the ten as ending in May 1944. Only Rock-Ola ended in may of 1944 ( which he listed as April) while the others ended in April 1944. Only Inland and Winchester continued with production past then. He lists over 50K receivers made by IP while most experts and researchers agree it's about 32K. before Saginaw Gear took over the IP production. Many of the production figures and time frame of them are wrong. In all fairness in that his numbers were just outdated but even when the author knew that he refused to change them. There are other problems with it too but this may give you an idea about it. I have no problem with what ever you decide but the list is bad information at best.