I guess Mark J was quoted as saying the 1911 will start a 1000.00 and go up according.
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I guess Mark J was quoted as saying the 1911 will start a 1000.00 and go up according.
and.. let the whining begin, I mean continue.
Mark Johnson at SHOT show.
http://www.alloutdoor.com/2016/01/19...-mark-johnson/
It's already started.
A list of my favorites (still to come):
"you're going to price common men out"
"great, so now only the high rollers can afford them"
"That's ridiculous. I'm out!" (and then secretly sends in an order)
"They'll never sell at that price" (and then they do)
"can't you offer something for us common people that just want a chance to hold and molest a piece of history stained with the blood and tears of the great men that made us free...blah blah blah?"
Sean - You forgot the "I'm owed one" without actually saying "I'm owed one" garbage.
Sure glad I've already got my USGI Rem Rand. I'll sit this one out for sure. I paid all of $400 for mine.
Jon
I'm on this list,no way in hell I'm paying $1,000.00 for a rack grade.I don't give a crap about the "oh,but it's for a good cause crap"!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by seaninmich
Considering the 'market' is in a nose dive maybe a $1K 1911 will prove to be a more solid investment. I for one am going to send in my order marked attn: Mark with a sticky asking for any grade as long as it's a Singer. Of course I'm convinced that only conservatives who all are filthy wealthy and live in mansions will be the ones piling up all the CMP .45's. Betcha they even have their wives, kids, parents, uncles, aunts and every other rich republican in the neighborhood buying one so they can swap out parts and make 'correct' fake guns to take advantage of the true collectors. Yeah, that's what's gonna go down---it's the end of the middle class I tell 'ya...the END.
What will happen is simple and obvious and guaranteed. As soon as the $1000 1911s start to flow from CMP, gun shows will be FULL of $2000 1911s and everyone will think CMP is a steal
Quote:
Originally Posted by seaninmich
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YES SIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Peace toolman
It will be interesting to watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Humperdink
Prince, heck with those usgi 1911's. If you want a good one, get a Norinco 1911. They can be had very inexpensively and are of far better quality. I have one and it is both gorgeous and of great quality.
But Tim,
Your Chink knock-off lacks the mystique, aura, and history of the real deal.
Jon
How many times have we heard "If these (insert weapon name here) could only talk.". Tim's 1911 would speak Mandarin. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by musketjon
I would probably pay $1K for a service grade. Otherwise basically for the same price you can get a Refinished Rifle with a new barrel and new wood, or you can have a rack grade beater pistol with a slide that's only hardened in a few spots...
Sounds like me--hard in a few spots.
Jon
So does my Para-Ordnance but I LIKE sending 14+1 45 rounds downrange before reloading.Quote:
Originally Posted by musketjon
I've got a feeling theoretical cmp pricing is the least of the gi 1911s troubles:
S.2943 - National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017
Subtitle E—Other Matters
SEC. 331. REPURPOSING AND REUSE OF SURPLUS MILITARY FIREARMS.
(a) Army Transfers.—
(1) REQUIRED TRANSFER.—Not later than 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, and subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the Secretary of the Army shall transfer to Rock Island Arsenal all excess firearms, related spare parts and components, small arms ammunition, and ammunition components currently stored at Defense Distribution Depot, Anniston, Alabama, that are no longer actively issued for military service.
(2) REPURPOSING AND REUSE.—The items specified for transfer under paragraph (1) shall be melted and repurposed for military use as determined by the Secretary of the Army, including—
(A) the re-forging of new firearms or their components; and
(B) force protection barriers and security bollards.
(3) TRANSFER FOR HISTORICAL PURPOSES.—Notwithstanding paragraphs (1) and (2), the Secretary may transfer up to 2,000 surplus caliber .45 M1911/M1911A1 pistols and 2,000 M–14 Rifles to a military museum for display and preservation.
(4) ITEMS EXEMPT FROM TRANSFER.—M–1 Garand and caliber .22 rimfire rifles are not subject to the transfer requirement under paragraph (1).
(b) Navy Transfers.—Section 40728 of title 36, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:
“(i) Authorized Navy Transfers.—
“(1) IN GENERAL.—Notwithstanding subsections (a) and (b), the Secretary of the Navy may transfer to the corporation, in accordance with the procedures prescribed in this subchapter, M–1 Garand and caliber .22 rimfire rifles held within the inventories of the United States Navy and the United States Marine Corps and stored at Defense Distribution Depot, Anniston, Alabama, or Naval Surface Warfare Center, Crane, Indiana, as of the date of the enactment of the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2017.
“(2) USE AS MARKSMANSHIP TROPHIES.—The items specified for transfer under paragraph (1) shall be used as awards for competitors in marksmanship competitions held by the United States Marine Corps or the United States Navy and may not be resold.”.
That's the Senate version of the bill. The House version (H.R. 4909) does not have that language, or even that section. That will need to be reconciled prior to final passage. There are much bigger fish to fry in the overall bill; some Dem staffer probably snuck the language into an amendment unnoticed in committee. Reps have the votes to remove the section in Reconciliation, if they feel it's in their interests.
These eggs haven't hatched yet.
With cheap Filipino 1911s going for $400, I fail to see the attraction of a mix master 1911 with a substandard slide for $1,000.
What the CMP might be selling is what I have been passing on for less money in gun stores for years.
If the CMP had matching and correct 1911s, I could understand huge prices but a mixmaster isn't very historically interesting and since you can get a better 1911 for less money, curiosity seems to be the only value.
I learned to shoot with an unissued Remington Rand. It seems really stupid now. It was a nice gun, pretty tight and accurate but it hadn't been rearsenaled a few times. I imagine a CMP gun will be very sloppy by comparison. Although the Remington Rand was nice, I have shot better which is why it was so stupid to break it's cherry.
I haven't shopped recently but I bet there are plenty of good series 70 Colts for around $1,000 and that is a superior 1911 to anything surplus.
The last 1911 I bought was a $120 Norinco frame, slide and barrel project. It is metallurgically superior and M1911A1 spec. I won't feel bad about peening the rails, squeezing the slide, cutting it for a beaver tail safety, stippling or anything else I might want to do. The best part is I'll be able to do all of that for less than $1,000.
Exactly, Getting worked up, and if for sale will all be over in one days time...I hope they enjoy them, but for those prices, I'M OUT.....just watching all the speculation, next it will be some gold-plated Patton pistols..Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAD POISON
I bought this 1918 M1911 almost 10 years ago. It's been refinished, but it is a very nice pistol. I don;t shoot it all that much, so I guess I could find something else to spend $1000 on.....maybe apply that sum to a nice C96....I've been wanting to add one of those to my collection. I would hope that the CMP, whenever they put these up for sale,
have them out at the stores so we can pick them out ourselves. Guess I would have to look at them to really decide.
Meanwhile......Here are a few pics of my 1918 Colt 1911. I have two two-tone magazines. Holster is El Paso Sadlery; Belt and pouches are original.
Attachment 2157Attachment 2158Attachment 2159
I inherited one of my Colt 1911A1's and got the other several years back. If I buy one from the CMP, it's as much to support the CMP as anything else.
I love 1911s and still have a couple. One or more of the 1911A1s I was issued may well be among the mix but I wouldn't know it if it was placed in front of me. We were always among the first to get new items but we were among the last to turn in our 1911s for Berettas. We didn't want to give up our .45s for 9mms, tried not to via various Request for Exception to Policy memos, and only relinquished them when big army forced us to.
That said, only a pristine, originally configured, US Govt. 1911A1 would be collectible. Anything else would be a shooter and, considering how the Garands, Carbines, and 1903s went, could have considerable wear and tear and need some sprucing up. But at that price I can get any of a number of modern 1911s brand new from Colt and several other makers. If I wanted a non-collectible 1911A1 model I could even get one of those as a reproduction from Rock Island, Springfield, Iver Johnson, and Fed Ord for anywhere from $400-$800.
There is also a question of whether the pistol can go directly to your door like the rifles. I don't know the answer. But if I have to pay a dealer for transfer and get charged 8% sales tax on top of purchase price + shipping (yes, that's what they do here) then it makes the whole deal even less attractive.
No bother. Within a few years many people who purchased DCM 1911s will be selling them. The market will be flooded and, if I really MUST have an original USGI issue pistol, I will pick one up then for half the cost.
Is this a whine? No, I don't think so. It's a reality check.
What was DCM thinking?
When I wanned to buy Gun Holsters for my 1911 The guy told me that price is going up. I was like what?! They are increasing it more and more and don't change anything!
I think to sell my 1911 soon so if you are interested please pm me :D
I received an update from the CMP about the 1911 pistols. There are three grades posted: Service Grade: $1050; Field grade $950 and Rack Grade: $850. Please go to www.thecmp.org to verify these prices. There have reserved some of the pistols to auction only.....these are the really good or maybe rarer ones that people thought they might get for Rack grade prices. Oh....ONLY ONE per customer. If you buy one through their lottery, you cannot buy an auction pistol and vice-versa.
They do not know how many pistols will be available next year. I also do not remember if your Number is not chosen this time, if you will be held over for the next batch or if a new application must be submitted. Again, please view the website or contact them.
They discussed their two levels of background checks......the Army/CMP does not want any of these pistols being returned for any reason. Therefore, they will perform a BG check at CMP level to be certain that you can take possession, then the pistol will be shipped to an FFL who will perform the Their 4473 BG check on you again. If you pass the initial one, the 2nd should only be an inconvenience, but you will still probably be charge for the BG check. C&R licensees will not be honored.
Applications must be submitted by regular mail only and can begin being accepted by a date in September (Please check their website for details). Any applications received prior to that date WILL NOT be accepted nor held.
This is a lot to enter a lottery for a "chance" to purchase a pistol. Does it really matter if these were owned by the military? Is that CMP certificate going to double the resale value of one of these pistols.....if that is all some people are looking for? Many of those certificates get lost and often never get transferred with the gun, so after that, who's to say where the gun came from?
Personally, I already own a nice 1918 Colt. I hardly ever shoot it.
Attachment 2508
I wonder if this will be an actual lottery. I guess it doesn't matter though because I already have the finest of 1911's.
The CMP said that your application will be given a number and placed into a random number generator, so just because your application arrived first, does not mean that you will be first to purchase. So, it sounds like a lottery to me. And if all the Service grades are gone when your number comes up and you do not want one of the other grades, or if you don;t have the money at that time......I guess you are just SOL. And if there are more applications than there are pistols, I guess those little piggies will get none.
I guess that this depends on one's definition of the word "lottery". If we mean like our past postal shoots where I drew a name out of a hat, then yes it's a lottery. If we mean an outside agency who makes sure that everything is done fairly and no special favors are done for the anointed ones, this may fall short.
Why don't we volunteer to go down to anniston to help unpack, sort and grade these pistols the way the gca does for Garands?
You have to be in the right club for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Punch The Clown
Ahhh, another lottery I will lose
As they say: "Pictures or it doesn't exist" !!Quote:
Originally Posted by timshufflin
CMP 1911. Uhhhhhhhhhh..................no.
Check out the info for the rack grade....Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition.
Why would you pay $850.00 for a 1911 that still needs repairs and what does cmp consider minor work ?
CMP 1911 pricing:
CMP has priced the 1911 type pistols at fair market value in accordance with CMP's enabling legislation.
Service Grade $1050. Pistol may exhibit minor pitting and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.
Field Grade $950. Pistol may exhibit minor rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips are complete with no cracks. Pistol is in issuable condition.
Rack Grade $850. Pistol will exhibit rust, pitting, and wear on exterior surfaces and friction surfaces. Grips may be incomplete and exhibit cracks. Pistol requires minor work to return to issuable condition.
Auction Grade (Sales will to be determined by auctioning the pistol). The condition of the auction pistol will be described when posted for auction. Note: If you have already purchased a 1911 from CMP you will not be allowed to purchase an auction 1911. If you purchase an auction 1911, your name will be pulled from the sequenced list. No repeat purchasers are allowed until all orders received have been filled.
The shipping cost is included in the price.
Same reason people buy Rack Grade Garands, many of them you need to replace stocks and or hand guards and barrel and other assorted parts
I agree with you 100% about the garands. I am questioning the word "issuable". Does that mean it is not safe-to-fire without minor work ? Or does that it mean it only needs cosmetic work ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando
Seriously, and I mean this, I've not yet seen a rack or field grade Garand that didn't come to me checking out on headspace. Now the specials and such with new barrels, I have seen a few that did not pass go. I'd rather fire a rifle with some worn parts than one with short headspace any day of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by jak
Maybe it cannot be fired until it is checked out and any repairs/replacements made. I really still don;t see what the big deal everyone seems to be placing one these. Is it that CMP "certificate" identifying it as a real US Military surplus arm? Aren;t the vast majority of the 1911-1945 pistols US military surplus? Do people think that these will immediately gain a premium in value just because it came from the CMP? Are those people just looking to turn it around and make a quick buck? I just don't really get the "excitement" over these. Then, if you start replacing parts, all you might have left original are the frame and slide.
Besides....I am in Afghanistan, at a very small NATO base. There isn;t even a US Psot office here and not even an ATM to get any cash!
How the hell am I going to get an application notarized out here and then mail it back to the CMP? Lat time I mailed something from Bagram Air Base, it took three months to get to the States!