Garand historical guardianship

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Originally Posted by KnickKnack

I read a story once from a dealer of toy trains. He was selling at a toy train show one time and some guy kept coming up to his table all day, offering him $10 for 4 lead figures of train people, that he clearly had marked $30. Finally, at the end of the day, the guy came back one last time, with the same offer. The dealer stared at him for a minute, placed the figures on the floor and ground them in with the heal of his shoe. Then he told the guy, "Now I'll take $10 for them!". Classic! :)

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LMAO! I think it's darn funny if a guy has $20 to burn, why NOT!

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Originally Posted by KnickKnack

I read a story once from a dealer of toy trains. He was selling at a toy train show one time and some guy kept coming up to his table all day, offering him $10 for 4 lead figures of train people, that he clearly had marked $30. Finally, at the end of the day, the guy came back one last time, with the same offer. The dealer stared at him for a minute, placed the figures on the floor and ground them in with the heal of his shoe. Then he told the guy, "Now I'll take $10 for them!". Classic! :)

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One of my friends is a Lionel train dealer. I usually help him watch his tables at the train shows. My friend wanted to do exactly the same thing. (but he never did). Maybe it's something that only affects train collectors. It can be frustrating dealing with the general public at times.

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Originally Posted by Rick B

You made me think of how at just about every show in Ohio I go to there is a handful of sellers who will always ask to see what I have and then hand it back. Most of the times with some comments to make my 20.00 bill only worth 10 bucks if you get my drift. I finally decided to tell them when they would try to call me over,,, Naw that's ok, you have looked at everything I have ever brought to the shows and never bought one thing along with degrade my items. Would you believe all of them have treated me allot better and even bought some of my stuff the last year. I was even apologized to by two of them. That is the honest to Gods truth. Rick B

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Last show I went to with something to sell Every dealer tht asked to see what I had was told "No.. I know I'll get better offers from the aisle walkers". Most chuckled and agreed. If they still wanted to see what I have then they are really intersted.

As for the historical thing, if a Garand is original as it came from SA or where ever then preserve it. Maybe sell it to someone who has an appreciation for that sort of thing, then get a racker to play with. If you don't feel like selling the item them do with it as you wish, it is yours!

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Originally Posted by KnickKnack

I read a story once from a dealer of toy trains. He was selling at a toy train show one time and some guy kept coming up to his table all day, offering him $10 for 4 lead figures of train people, that he clearly had marked $30. Finally, at the end of the day, the guy came back one last time, with the same offer. The dealer stared at him for a minute, placed the figures on the floor and ground them in with the heal of his shoe. Then he told the guy, "Now I'll take $10 for them!". Classic! :)

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Not exactly the point I was trying to make, but funny.

To put it another way:

If you don't like how I am treating one of my possessions, then I will do exactly what you don't think I should do with it just to prove I can. It's mine.

Whether it's a rifle or a classic car, I can chop it to my hearts content.

A lot of you guys here are hunters. Hunting is just not my thing.

I would never campaign against you hunting just because I don't like it.

In fact I would defend your ability to hunt.

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Originally Posted by Rick B

Shame you think that is classic. I will never ruin my stuff to prove that point. I do not let anyone upset me during a buy and guess it is maturity from learning how to deal with people. Rick B

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That's really the point. It's your stuff to do with as you please.

A quote from Robert Morris, 19th. century British artist & designer applies here: "These old artifacts do not belong to us only; they belong to our forefathers and they will belong to our descendants unless we play them false. They are not in any sense our own property to do what we want with them. We are only trustees for those who come after us."

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Originally Posted by The Garand Guy

A quote from Robert Morris, 19th. century British artist & designer applies here: "These old artifacts do not belong to us only; they belong to our forefathers and they will belong to our descendants unless we play them false. They are not in any sense our own property to do what we want with them. We are only trustees for those who come after us."

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I've also seen this quote and I understand it. However, my point was that it all can be gone in seconds, so why get that involved in it? I've seen hundreds of "valuable" items destroyed by fires and other disasters in my lifetime. I've seen people that poured their heart and soul into collecting, only to have their collections divided up and sold after they died, and for a very small percentage of what they invested in money. I've seen family businesses that went through generations for years completely destroyed in minutes and gone forever. I've seen the bodies of some of these families pulled from the rubble because they tried to save some "valuable" object. Literally, none of us knows what the next minute will bring. I've had a lot of things that I thought were valuable to me and kept good care of them. Lots of them are gone now, and you know what? I don't really miss them all that much. If someone else is enjoying them, good for them. If they've been destroyed, there is nothing that I can do about it. Who's to say what the next generation will think of these items? Already I see things that I once thought were valuable in my life mean nothing to the youth of today. You can only do so much to perserve what you have and educate those that will come after you. In the end, it will be they, or nature, that will decide the final fate.

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Originally Posted by The Garand Guy

A quote from Robert Morris, 19th. century British artist & designer applies here: "These old artifacts do not belong to us only; they belong to our forefathers and they will belong to our descendants unless we play them false. They are not in any sense our own property to do what we want with them. We are only trustees for those who come after us."

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I have a few quotes which, in my opinion, trump the emotion of collecting with the objectivity of private property.

A culture without property, or in which creators can't get paid, is anarchy, not freedom.
Lawrence Lessig


A lawyer's dream of heaven: every man reclaimed his property at the resurrection, and each tried to recover it from all his forefathers.
Samuel Butler

Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: First a right to life, secondly to liberty, and thirdly to property; together with the right to defend them in the best manner they can.
Samuel Adams



Some would argue that just because you "own it" doesn't mean you should destroy or use your property. My point is that EVERY time you handle a collectible, you are destroying it, if not just a little. Once you can admit that, we're simply arguing over how much time is acceptable to destroy something.

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Originally Posted by timshufflin

Some would argue that just because you "own it" doesn't mean you should destroy or use your property. My point is that EVERY time you handle a collectible, you are destroying it, if not just a little. Once you can admit that, we're simply arguing over how much time is acceptable to destroy something.

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I have a personal example of this. I purchased a correct grade rifle from a private party, I being the THIRD owner...I don't know what might have happened to the rifle in previous ownership. This I know, the rifle was shot and not cleaned, used and not cared for. The rifle receiver had been allowed to rust and a few other places where more rust had been carelessly buffed off with scotch brite showing bare metal.

The previous owner had every right to treat the rifle in this manner, when I purchased it...I have every right to keep it clean, shoot it and maintain it to stop rust from once again attacking the metal. I'm not the previous owner.

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Originally Posted by timshufflin

My point is that EVERY time you handle a collectible, you are destroying it, if not just a little. Once you can admit that, we're simply arguing over how much time is acceptable to destroy something.

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It would seem to me that this simplification is overly absolute or at least, a matter of symantics.

While I suppose I could agree that the root of what you are saying is not false from a pure scientific point, it would be a leap of faith to blindly jump on this bandwagon and agree with the oversimplification.

To what degree of "handling" is intended by the statement? I would interprete the statement to be intended as absolute and therefore infer that the mere physical handling (touching with my hands) to be destructive, even more so by the act of firing. But, in a reality that does not have the burden of symantics, when does the handling produce measurable destruction? If this destruction is not measurable, how can it be professed to be a horrendous act of erosion? If by simply picking up a "brand new" collectible specimen into my hands somehow truely destroys it, then nothing can ever be "brand new" or "collectible" as it would experience some level of handling prior to it ever even becoming a completed assembly. Further, how can a material as soft as human skin apprecibly (measurably) wear something as hard as steel? Even the act of firing high velocity ammunition thru a firearm produces wear that is not measurable until the act is repeated numerous times until you can actually perceive a measurement. Yes, there may be a visual perception of finish wear to parts that move against each other, but how can it be a quantified "destruction?"

Further, does it really have to be as black and white as this?