M1A buyers remorse

Two years ago I saved up enough money to buy a National match Springfield(Inc) M1A. It is not a Super match but not the "loaded" model that many dealers claim to be NM. This is the most expensive rifle I own.I have shot it in three matches in the last two years. The first time I shot a 267 of 300, I can easily do better than that with any one of my Mosin Nagants or Enfields.Last year I shot a 279 with it and last month I shot a 276 with it. My Garands and AR 15 A2s shoot circles around this thing.I have tried many different loads and settled in on 41 gr Varget and a Hornady 150 FMJ. I am going to force myself to shoot it the next two months in Service match so that I will have shot it three months in a row.Maybe familiarity will bring the scores up. I do love the rifle and will keep it as it fills a slot(although technically not) in my U.S Service rifle collection but do have serious buyers remorse over it.

Is it because the rifle doesnt shoot well or you arent comfortable with it.
Does it group off the bench??
My standard M1A (scoped) is capable on a good day of 10 rds ,1 5/8 group, normal day 2" This is with surplus 7.62 off a bench

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f1...Picture047.jpg

I think it is that I just need to shoot it more and get comfortable with it. I know that just throwing money at something won't make it happen however this M1A has not been a good value and I am frugal to a fault.My frugality is were my buyers remorse comes from. The M1 A is my most comfortable rifle for the Offhand position, I use a ten shot mag and build on the mag, palm to mag bottom and elbow on hip bone. Get a rock solid bone hold this way and very often my Offhand is a better score or at least as good as prone.

I scoped my M1A with the factory mount and scope and can't for the life of me figure out where my shots are going even at 50 yards. I put the scope on it because it was sold to me with the rifle and my vision is a little fuzzy so I figured that it would be easier to see with optics. I can see better but can't hit a damn thing with it. I feel like going back to irons and trying to work my groups that way.

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Originally Posted by melloman

I scoped my M1A with the factory mount and scope and can't for the life of me figure out where my shots are going even at 50 yards. I put the scope on it because it was sold to me with the rifle and my vision is a little fuzzy so I figured that it would be easier to see with optics. I can see better but can't hit a damn thing with it. I feel like going back to irons and trying to work my groups that way.

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So you cant hit paper at 50yds??
Move that sucker in to 25yds and go from there
Set rifle on a rest and try and sight down the barrel to the target then, adjust scope. You must be way out of adjustment

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Originally Posted by melloman

I scoped my M1A with the factory mount and scope and can't for the life of me figure out where my shots are going even at 50 yards. I put the scope on it because it was sold to me with the rifle and my vision is a little fuzzy so I figured that it would be easier to see with optics. I can see better but can't hit a damn thing with it. I feel like going back to irons and trying to work my groups that way.

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Get a laser boresighter and sight in the rifle.
It will be cheaper in the long run compared to all the ammo you will waste.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat103924980

What's an M1a? I've shot them, parked them, put barrels on em... I just cannot develop any passion for them. I don't find them "cool" and I don't even, nor have I ever, owned one.

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Originally Posted by timshufflin

What's an M1a? I've shot them, parked them, put barrels on em... I just cannot develop any passion for them. I don't find them "cool" and I don't even, nor have I ever, owned one.

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Commie :)

+1 with Shuff.
Jon

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Originally Posted by timshufflin

What's an M1a? I've shot them, parked them, put barrels on em... I just cannot develop any passion for them. I don't find them "cool" and I don't even, nor have I ever, owned one.

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Yeah,well You chop up Garands into little abominations so Your opinion doesn't matter ;)

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Originally Posted by Prince Humperdink

Yeah,well You chop up Garands into little abominations so Your opinion doesn't matter ;)

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If the M1a was worth a crap I wouldn't have to stick my Magazine in a Garand.

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Originally Posted by timshufflin

If the M1a was worth a crap I wouldn't have to stick by Magazine in a Garand.

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Hee Hee Hee.I love The M14 type,but They are still not M1's to Me.I never thought I would say this,but someday I want a mag fed mini G after I seen that camo one that was posted....it was sharp.

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Originally Posted by timshufflin

What's an M1a?

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It's a Garand "improved" by committee... sort of like the old joke about how camels came to be. :D

I have one, but it doesn't have the same feel as the Garand by any stretch of the imagination. It is a little easier to scope then a Garand, that's its biggest redeeming factor to me and my middle-aged eyeballs.

Well, I've shot it in match two months in a row. Second place in Feb and first place this month. I'll shoot it in April's match and put it up for a while. It shoots well enough but it is time for the Garands and Ar's to come out and whip some butt.

Until I bust for some Lasik I ain't hitting squat.

Try Sierra 155 palma match bullets loaded to the accuracy load recommended in the Sierra load book. You may be pleasantly surprised.

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Originally Posted by Prince Humperdink

Yeah,well You chop up Garands into little abominations so Your opinion doesn't matter ;)

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Way to go Humper!!!!! Maybe it's wrong, but I just love it when someone zings Timmah.

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Originally Posted by singleshotcajun

Two years ago I saved up enough money to buy a National match Springfield(Inc) M1A. It is not a Super match but not the "loaded" model that many dealers claim to be NM. This is the most expensive rifle I own.I have shot it in three matches in the last two years. The first time I shot a 267 of 300, I can easily do better than that with any one of my Mosin Nagants or Enfields.Last year I shot a 279 with it and last month I shot a 276 with it. My Garands and AR 15 A2s shoot circles around this thing.I have tried many different loads and settled in on 41 gr Varget and a Hornady 150 FMJ. I am going to force myself to shoot it the next two months in Service match so that I will have shot it three months in a row.Maybe familiarity will bring the scores up. I do love the rifle and will keep it as it fills a slot(although technically not) in my U.S Service rifle collection but do have serious buyers remorse over it.

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I know this is a older post but, #1 your reloaded ammo isn't a known accuracy load, if you need good load data let me know. #2 are you shooting full distance or reduced targets?

Welcome Phil!

You guys with M1-A's I recommend the following.
Buy a couple of boxes or Federal 168gr Match ammo/and or load up some 308 ammo with Sierra 168gr Matchkings, over 39.5gr of IMR 3031.

If you rifle does not shoot either of these loads very good, then there is something wrong with your rifle, IMHO.

I have never shot, or seen shot a 308/7.62mm rifle that did not shoot one or both of these loads pretty good.

And I have seen a bunch of 308/7.62mm rifles shoot these loads over the years.
Bolt action hunting, and sniper, and competition rifles, single shot and lever rifles, semiautos such as FN-Fal's, H&K 91, M14's/M1-A's, M1 Garands in 308/7.62.

I have seen several standard M1-A's that shoot 150gr bullets into 3 or 4 inches at 100 yards shoot 1 to 2 moa with these loads. Match rifles usually do even better with these loads.

3031 - that is just a tick slower than 4064 - correct?

melloman

No, actually IMR 3031 is a faster than IMR 4064, and a little faster than IMR 4895.

I also use IMR 3031 for my 30/06 Tanker Garand Hunting loads. Mainly because I have a bunch of it on hand but it gives great accuracy in the 30/06 as well.

Also IMR 3031 would be an ideal powder for the 30/06 Mini-G.

Guys with the M1-A 16" SOCOMS really seem to like my 308 loads.

For burning speeds IMR 3031 is on the fast end IMR 4064 is the slowest, Varget is maybe a tic slower but still comparable too IMR 4064.

I have read (Zedicker?) that 3031 is a good one to use. I have a lot of 150FMJ - have you tried to work up a load using those, or should I just choke it up and buy some heavier projectiles?

Usually the bulk made 150gr FMJ bullets are not the most accurate of bullets.

It has been my experience with the 308, and the 30/06 that 165/168 gr bullets are much more accurate.

In the 308 I use 42 gr of IMR 3031 with 150gr hunting bullets, and they hit very close to Military ball.

In the 30/06 Tanker I load 48gr of IMR 3031 with 150gr hunting bullets, but I have had much better accuracy with 165/168gr bullets with 46gr of IMR 3031.

With 180 gr hunting bullets I load 44 gr of IMR 3031.

None of these loads are near max hot loads, but they shot good in my 30/06 Tanker, and it runs 100% with them.

Most experts will say that IMR 4895 is the best powder for all round use in the 30/06 Garand. And I do not disagree, but I never use it, simply because I have a bunch of IMR 3031 on hand and it works for me in the loads I use.

I have used IMR 3031 in the 223, light loads in the 243, for the 308, and 30/06, for light loads in the 300 Win Mag, in the 350 Rem Mag, light loads in the 375 H&H, for the 405WCF, light loads in the 416 Rem Mag, for the 45/70, and light loads in my 450 No2. Plus a few other applications I just cannot think of over the years.

It is a very useful powder.

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Originally Posted by Prince Humperdink

Yeah,well You chop up Garands into little abominations so Your opinion doesn't matter ;)

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Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him? - Obi Wan Kenobi

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Originally Posted by NE450No2

Usually the bulk made 150gr FMJ bullets are not the most accurate of bullets.

It has been my experience with the 308, and the 30/06 that 165/168 gr bullets are much more accurate.

In the 308 I use 42 gr of IMR 3031 with 150gr hunting bullets, and they hit very close to Military ball.

In the 30/06 Tanker I load 48gr of IMR 3031 with 150gr hunting bullets, but I have had much better accuracy with 165/168gr bullets with 46gr of IMR 3031.

With 180 gr hunting bullets I load 44 gr of IMR 3031.

None of these loads are near max hot loads, but they shot good in my 30/06 Tanker, and it runs 100% with them.

Most experts will say that IMR 4895 is the best powder for all round use in the 30/06 Garand. And I do not disagree, but I never use it, simply because I have a bunch of IMR 3031 on hand and it works for me in the loads I use.

I have used IMR 3031 in the 223, light loads in the 243, for the 308, and 30/06, for light loads in the 300 Win Mag, in the 350 Rem Mag, light loads in the 375 H&H, for the 405WCF, light loads in the 416 Rem Mag, for the 45/70, and light loads in my 450 No2. Plus a few other applications I just cannot think of over the years.

It is a very useful powder.

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How does this 3031 workwith lighter bullets? I've been using the 168 AMAX and 4064 in my Garand and M1A but want to start shooting the lighter bullets and move to a powder that meters thru m Dillon. I've been thinking about the 135SMK. I'd also like to find one bullet and one powder that I can use for my M1A (1-12 twist), O3A3 (1-10 twist) and Garand (1-10 twist). Does 3031 meter well?

I will not say that IMR 3031 meters real well, if you were to weigh each thrown charge. However I have used it thrown from a measure for service rifle loads to 600 yards with excellent accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Prince Humperdink

Yeah,well You chop up Garands into little abominations so Your opinion doesn't matter ;)

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Prince, I do not have a Garand "chopped up" by Tim.

However, I do have a 308, and a 30/06 Tanker Garand "chopped up" by another guy before I heard of Tim, that I have owned for several years before I heard of Tim.

Also let me say that I really like regular sized Garands, and regular sized M14's.

I have found the shorter "chopped up" Garand in 308, or 30/06 to be a most excellent rifle. It is one of my most favorite rifles.

IF you are a M14 Freek, that is OK by me. You might want to try a M14M1-A Bush/Scout Squad Rifle.

ie, a "chopped up" M14. I like them too.

I used 3031 in my old reloading days and it meters like crap. The measure has to chop the powder just about everytime.

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Originally Posted by Punch The Clown

I used 3031 in my old reloading days and it meters like crap. The measure has to chop the powder just about everytime.

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I ended up reading some posts on other forums and found a IMR4895 load that I'm going to try with the 135smk in both the .308 and .30-06. I know 4895 measures well in the Dillon powder measures. Hopefully this won't be all for nothing.

Wish me luck.

Yes IMR 3031 does get cut when run through a powder measure. It has still shot great for me.

When I used it for Palma matches at 800, 900, and 1000 yards I hand weighed each charge.

I have used IMR 3031 for my 223 Prairie dog loads and I threw it with a measure. Loads were still very accurate.

42.0/IMR 4895, Hornady 150 Spire Point (hunting bullet), Rem 9 1/2 gave me sub-moa groups years ago in my M1a Super Match (when I could still see the sights!).

What is the problem if the powder gets chopped by the measure?

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Originally Posted by melloman

What is the problem if the powder gets chopped by the measure?

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It's just a PITA. The handle of the powder measure stops dead in it's tracks and then you have to force it to cut through the cylinder shape powder granule. Ball powder meters much easier.

Thanks for the explanation. As I have a Dillon 550B, will IMR 4895 meter thru the auto powder measure consistently? I have been loading IMR 4064 and that will not meter well at all in that setup so I use a PACT digital scale/dispenser setup to measure charges.

IMR4895 will run the a Dillon powder measure no problem.

Good to know - I have some but have not even opened it yet - assumed it was just like 4064.