Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Freedom or Bigotry?

  1. #1
    Patriot Roadkingtrax's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    991
    Rep Power
    25

    Freedom or Bigotry?

    http://nation.time.com/2014/02/21/ga...gious-liberty/

    As you may have heard, my state passed a law, and sent it to the Governor to sign. It allows an owner of a business to deny services to anyone, if they feel it violates a strongly held religious belief.

    The Homosexual advocates have jumped on this, thought no where in the bill can I see anything about "what" is being denied here in way of services with regard to sexual orientation. What business will last long, when it refuses to serve any group...any where? More to come I'm sure, just don't fall for the fly by night media. (We already know that).

    This comment sums up my position:

    ~MikeSmith6
    "Just how many businesses do you think this will affect? Your basic needs will not be affected, I am sure. Fry's will still sell to you, etc. Target, K-Mart, all the box stores. It is the small business owner who doesn't want to be forced into attending a gay wedding to take photographs or deliver cakes, etc. If you fail to see the importance of a person's faith, you are missing the point of the law. Comparing this to Germany in the 30's is a bit over the top. Besides why can't a homosexual simply choose a business more friendly? If you experience bad service, you just go elsewhere, right? Your fears are unfounded. If this depresses you, you have more serious issues than a bill that hasn't even been signed into law. Man up."


    The bill in question:

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/hb2153h.htm

    HOUSE BILL 2153




    AN ACT



    amending sections 41‑1493 and 41‑1493.01, Arizona Revised Statutes; relating to the free exercise of religion.





    (TEXT OF BILL BEGINS ON NEXT PAGE)



    Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:

    Section 1. Section 41-1493, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

    41-1493. Definitions

    In this article, unless the context otherwise requires:

    1. "Demonstrates" means meets the burdens of going forward with the evidence and of persuasion.

    2. "Exercise of religion" means the practice or observance of religion, including the ability to act or refusal to act in a manner substantially motivated by a religious belief, whether or not the exercise is compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.

    3. "Government" includes this state and any agency or political subdivision of this state.

    4. "Nonreligious assembly or institution" includes all membership organizations, theaters, cultural centers, dance halls, fraternal orders, amphitheaters and places of public assembly regardless of size that a government or political subdivision allows to meet in a zoning district by code or ordinance or by practice.

    5. "Person" includes a religious assembly or institution any individual, association, partnership, corporation, church, religious assembly or institution or other business organization.

    6. "Political subdivision" includes any county, city, including a charter city, town, school district, municipal corporation or special district, any board, commission or agency of a county, city, including a charter city, town, school district, municipal corporation or special district or any other local public agency.

    7. "Religion‑neutral zoning standards":

    (a) Means numerically definable standards such as maximum occupancy codes, height restrictions, setbacks, fire codes, parking space requirements, sewer capacity limitations and traffic congestion limitations.

    (b) Does not include:

    (i) Synergy with uses that a government holds as more desirable.

    (ii) The ability to raise tax revenues.

    8. "Suitable alternate property" means a financially feasible property considering the person's revenue sources and other financial obligations with respect to the person's exercise of religion and with relation to spending that is in the same zoning district or in a contiguous area that the person finds acceptable for conducting the person's religious mission and that is large enough to fully accommodate the current and projected seating capacity requirements of the person in a manner that the person deems suitable for the person's religious mission.

    9. "Unreasonable burden" means that a person is prevented from using the person's property in a manner that the person finds satisfactory to fulfill the person's religious mission.

    Sec. 2. Section 41-1493.01, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended to read:

    41-1493.01. Free exercise of religion protected; definition

    A. Free exercise of religion is a fundamental right that applies in this state even if laws, rules or other government actions are facially neutral.

    B. Except as provided in subsection C, government of this section, state action shall not substantially burden a person's exercise of religion even if the burden results from a rule of general applicability.

    C. Government State action may substantially burden a person's exercise of religion only if it the government or nongovernmental PERSON SEEKING THE ENFORCEMENT OF STATE ACTION demonstrates that application of the burden to the person person's exercise of religion in this particular instance is both:

    1. In furtherance of a compelling governmental interest.

    2. The least restrictive means of furthering that compelling governmental interest.

    D. A person whose religious exercise is burdened in violation of this section may assert that violation as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding, and obtain appropriate relief against a government regardless of whether the government is a party to the proceeding.

    E. A person that asserts a violation of this section must establish all of the following:

    1. That the person's action or refusal to act is motivated by a religious belief.

    2. That the person's religious belief is sincerely held.

    3. That the state action substantially burdens the exercise of the person's religious beliefs.

    F. The person asserting a claim or defense under subsection D of this section may obtain injunctive and declaratory relief. A party who prevails in any action to enforce this article against a government shall recover attorney fees and costs.

    E. G. In For the purposes of this section, the term substantially burden is intended solely to ensure that this article is not triggered by trivial, technical or de minimis infractions.

    H. For the purposes of this section, "state action" means any action, except for the requirements prescribed by section 41-1493.04, by the government or the implementation or application of any law, including state and local laws, ordinances, rules, regulations and policies, whether statutory or otherwise, and whether the implementation or application is made by the government or nongovernmental persons.

  2. #2
    Patriot
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    872
    Rep Power
    21
    I think it's right on. I don't think it's cool to force someone to do anything. Forcing a business owner to do something against their beliefs doesn't sit well with me. America is still Capitalist (for the moment). Someone else surely will sell a wedding cake for gay weddings if a few bakeries don't want to.

  3. #3
    Moderator Punch The Clown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    3,865
    Rep Power
    64
    People should not be forced to violate their religious beliefs. Hating someone based on their religion IS NOT a religious belief, but I am sure the libtards will sell it that way.
    When dealing with liberals, always attribute to malice what would ordinarily be attributed to incompetence.

    "Of course it won't be easy; nothing worthwhile ever is. That is why I have always failed where others have succeeded."-Clouseau

  4. #4
    Founding Member canes7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,035
    Rep Power
    39
    Its my business, not the states. Therefore I make the decisions. Is the .gov going to force people to buy from me?
    !

  5. #5
    Founding Member seaninmich's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,277
    Rep Power
    45
    this law is a waste of time. it should not exist as it should not NEED to exist. a private business owner already has the right to deny business to anyone for ANY reason - or NO reason. there is absolutely no reason I should not be able to post a sign on my business that says "we don't serve jews and we don't hire blacks or fat chicks" (as examples) with no legal fallout whatsoever.
    [SIGPIC]

  6. #6
    Founding Member canes7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,035
    Rep Power
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by seaninmich View Post
    this law is a waste of time. it should not exist as it should not NEED to exist. a private business owner already has the right to deny business to anyone for ANY reason - or NO reason. there is absolutely no reason I should not be able to post a sign on my business that says "we don't serve jews and we don't hire blacks or fat chicks" (as examples) with no legal fallout whatsoever.
    Exactly. If you want to place limits on yourself or your business it is your choice and should not even be up for judgment by others.
    !

  7. #7
    Administrator timshufflin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Jerome
    Posts
    7,135
    Rep Power
    10
    It is both freedom and bigotry. A private business should be able to deny anyone based on any reason they may want. The reasons to include race, color, religion, sexual orientation, gender, age, political persuasion, anything. I'll be the shop open to all except progressives, and rewarding myself with the added revenues.

  8. #8
    Patriot Jimbo Slice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    U.P. MI
    Posts
    402
    Rep Power
    18
    Quote Originally Posted by canes7 View Post
    Is the .gov going to force people to buy from me?

    Do you sell health insurance?


    It's gone beyond "meddling" Gentlemen, to flat out extortion.

  9. #9
    Patriot cannonshooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Near Cabela's Hamburg PA
    Posts
    495
    Rep Power
    19
    I cant wait to see the sign in the bakery that states "No Skinny Chicks allowed .Fat chicks spend more"
    Mack
    Last edited by cannonshooter; 02-22-2014 at 08:49 PM.

  10. #10
    Founding Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    west tennessee
    Posts
    1,595
    Rep Power
    28
    Quote Originally Posted by cannonshooter View Post
    I cant wait to see the sign in the bakery that states "No Skinny Chicks allowed .Fat chicks spend more"
    Mack
    I know here, that our Bakery Will not make a CASKET shaped cake,, Nor will they feature womens anatomy on a cake..that is beliefs and religous freedoms too...
    The LGBT mess has just picked up speed...they want it all to be free...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •